Ep 167 : Exploring Mythology, Religion, and Fine Art ft Amir Bey, Grace Nkem, & Obinna Elechi

Raphael Harry [00:00:00]:

Welcome to White Label American Podcast. This is a podcast that brings you bold, in-depth interviews with interesting people who are mostly immigrants taking down artificial walls 1 story at a time. This is a podcast that empowers immigrants to share their stories and listen to those of others. Thank you for joining us. Welcome to another episode of White Label American. Thank you all for joining us today. I'm glad you're here. Keep the support coming in.

Raphael Harry [00:00:42]:

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Raphael Harry [00:01:33]:

So do the right thing. Some of you got that money. You don't know what to do with it, and we don't accept, crypto. We don't accept, naira. Yes. I love Nigerians, but I don't accept naira. Bring bring real money. But if you wanna bring gold and as far as non-Nazi gold, well, you know, you gotta accept it too.

Raphael Harry [00:01:51]:

God, it's Christmas time, holiday time, Kwanzaa, bring it. So give, give, give, and I give to our support of the creators. You know, creatives out there. It's about them. Indie indie creators. I don't need to give the big guys money. Give the small guys only. So with that being said, let's meet, you've already met our guests.

Raphael Harry [00:02:12]:

You met them in part 1. You know? We have awesome people here. We have Obina. We have Grace and Amir. You heard them in part 1. Great stuff they gave us. I know Western I know I say Western. Like, art from somewhere like, Russia, Ukraine.

Raphael Harry [00:02:33]:

Is that because it does fall under Western art? Yeah. That falls on the western act. Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:02:38]:

Because it's I mean, it's like it's like oil painting, and

Raphael Harry [00:02:41]:

then it's

Grace Nkem [00:02:41]:

got Christian tradition mostly.

Raphael Harry [00:02:44]:

Okay. Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:02:45]:

It's a very blurry line, though.

Raphael Harry [00:02:46]:

Alright. Because that that that that's one part of it. Because I also look at people who I know. Like, I have a distant cousin, very distant cousin. He's based in Port Harcourt, and I know he does oil paintings, and I think he also does some sculpture work. But it's not like what you see over here. And, like, it's that's African painting too. And some paintings have existed for a long, long time.

Raphael Harry [00:03:19]:

So there are different types. So did they they they should also get to be counted?

Grace Nkem [00:03:25]:

I think they're I mean, I think it is art. A lot of I just think that because what we know of as I'm also people are so free to disagree with me on this. Mhmm. But what we know of as art and fine art is an invention of Basically Europe. Yeah. And now a lot of things it's now it's completely kind of left Europe, and it's a very now that has become the global understanding of what fine art is. Of what fine art is. But now painters I mean, if we look at contemporary painting in China or West Africa

Raphael Harry [00:03:57]:

Mhmm.

Grace Nkem [00:03:58]:

That's all fine art. Like like a painter like Gideon Apoll is doing fine art even though he's not living in the West. Mhmm. You know? But, The art market, art museums, art auction houses, this whole, like, fine art apparatus has kind of come out of the West. So I guess that's what I mean when I say, like, within, like, the Western cultural tradition. I've lost my train of thought here.

Amir Bey [00:04:24]:

Well, you know what? I had a similar, feeling when I went to see the MET had an exhibit Of, El, El Greco Mhmm. Paintings. And so I'm looking at these paintings, and they're the paintings of these bishops and, You know, the powerful people of his time. And I was thinking, gee whiz. Here I am looking at this work, and This stuff was done before there were museums.

Raphael Harry [00:04:51]:

Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:04:51]:

This was done before galleries. This was done before New York City. This was done before. I mean, they could not imagine when they posed for those, those you know, for El Greco, the bishop, the pope, or whoever. Mhmm. They had no concept to somebody like me that that this thing that that they're posing for that was gonna be in their private domain, and there I am going like,

Grace Nkem [00:05:15]:

I don't know who is Why did El Greco make his horses

Raphael Harry [00:05:18]:

so big? Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:05:19]:

And then, you know and so that's that's That's part of it. Because, you know, art, in some form or another, form or another, has always existed. And then there's a religious and spiritual component to it that even though it is different than some of the African traditional work that you were talking about, But, like, let's say, the pope, for instance, and what was it? I don't know. It was 1200 or whatever, whatever, you know, Brecco was. You know, the pope is not thinking About any private, display. He's it's really for his domain and his His whoever he thought of himself as being. You know?

Grace Nkem [00:05:59]:

Served like a historical, like, archival functionals.

Amir Bey [00:06:02]:

It's just archiving. And then, you know, the the other side of it is now is conceptual. What they're bringing out in these art schools is tending towards, conceptual type approaches. Now that's why I'm very I feel very lucky that I did not attend art school, and that the things that inspired me finally to be an artist were when I was living in the mountains in California, Where I would just take an antler and carve it, you know. Or I would find a stone and then I was thinking the 1st sculpture I ever made was Firewood for my fire, chopping it. You know? And then from there, so in other words, it all is not lost, You know, through, these European concepts. It's not just European, but this the the kind of, concepts that they have in these art schools, You know, because I know a few artists that developed independently like that.

Raphael Harry [00:07:02]:

Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:07:02]:

And, maybe they picked up certain ideas and notions. I I I can mention many people. I'll mention my friend Robin Holder, who makes these incredible books, You know? And and now her stuff is in, the, what is the big museum, here? I mean, in this in in DC. The Smithsonian, you know, she's in a few collections like that. She didn't go to art school. She was motivated and inspired And and and and and then and then she does this I mean, she does printmaking. That's just 1 person. I mean Oh, yeah.

Amir Bey [00:07:40]:

But there are a few others

Raphael Harry [00:07:41]:

here. On that.

Grace Nkem [00:07:42]:

I'm totally revised.

Raphael Harry [00:07:44]:

I also grew up in Benin City. I moved around Nigeria a lot. Been in

Amir Bey [00:07:49]:

the city.

Raphael Harry [00:07:49]:

Yes. So you might know where I'm going. Mhmm. And, the terracotta, Yeah. The terracotta paintings are also there. Mhmm. And, the now the terracotta paintings I'm going for, but that has existed right from time. And, not terracotta.

Raphael Harry [00:08:09]:

Is it terracotta? Not terracotta. Why am I speaking with why is the word? Is the metal

Obinna Elechi [00:08:13]:

The bronze.

Raphael Harry [00:08:13]:

The bronze. The bronze. Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:08:15]:

Yeah. Okay.

Raphael Harry [00:08:16]:

And that's something that's also as old as time that has finally that's now considered the other the that that that's been classified as, the metal age that has 2 metal ages that existed Mhmm. Simultaneously, and Dynasty is now accredited with being one of them. Mhmm. And that's also art too. And also there are portraits too that's above because that's One of the most Asian kingdoms that yeah. That guy had portraits. Like, that's you know, that's 1 person who you don't take that king very seriously. But, like, even I'm I don't normally greet kings, I if I were to meet him, I do that.

Raphael Harry [00:08:53]:

That's how he greets him. You kneel.

Grace Nkem [00:08:55]:

Can I revise the Statement I

Raphael Harry [00:08:56]:

made earlier? No. No. No. No. No. It's not an attack on you. No. It's not an attack on you.

Grace Nkem [00:09:00]:

I don't wanna imply that, like, I'm calling non-Western art not art because I would also, like, look back at, like, Musacchio, the early Renaissance painter, and be like, they told him exactly what to paint.

Raphael Harry [00:09:09]:

Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:09:10]:

They said, we wanna spend a bunch of money on this, so we need to use this much ultramarine And this much gold leaf, and it was like a flex and a political propaganda thing as much as it was a fresco. So I that what I said doesn't only apply to non-European art. It also very much applies to European art being like the older it gets, really existed in its time as fine art.

Raphael Harry [00:09:32]:

Mhmm. Okay. That's all. Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:09:33]:

So I

Raphael Harry [00:09:33]:

would say the same about, like, medieval. That's crushing.

Amir Bey [00:09:36]:

Well, the motivations of Older art are really, more about, like, craft

Raphael Harry [00:09:41]:

Mhmm.

Amir Bey [00:09:42]:

You know, like, and fashioning. Mhmm. And there's a certain, of it. You know, like, where, you know, like, you made that. You know? You you go to a a painter because they can paint certain things. You go to Yes.

Grace Nkem [00:09:57]:

There's no

Amir Bey [00:09:58]:

Right. There's no Yes.

Grace Nkem [00:09:59]:

No. It was like yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:10:01]:

Yeah. Fresh south. If you get stuff from those, the metal guys. Mhmm. I think it was probably in the nineties. Like, they rarely signed because I've been to those areas late nineties. Mhmm. And they rarely signed I think it was only 2000, that you started seeing people having a because it there was this, is tied to, I think, Christianity, like, it's vain for you to have your name, sign in stuff.

Raphael Harry [00:10:27]:

But idea

Grace Nkem [00:10:28]:

of an artist as a brand. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:10:30]:

Yeah. But

Grace Nkem [00:10:31]:

That's a very, like

Raphael Harry [00:10:32]:

When when when it comes to paintings, then you see stuff like, What's the name of the woman with the largest, art gallery in Lagos? Forgetting her name, but she's, like, mad famous. Mhmm. I think she might have been the 1st person like this. I'm a brand. I'm it's not even the gallery. I'm the brand new gallery, and she's, like, very against returning artifacts to Nigeria too, by the way.

Obinna Elechi [00:10:59]:

She's against it.

Raphael Harry [00:11:00]:

Oh, yeah. She's against it.

Grace Nkem [00:11:01]:

There's no money for art dealers in repatriation.

Amir Bey [00:11:04]:

Yeah. Well, you know you know what's interesting is, like like, just going, okay, ancient Egypt now. Egypt had thousands of years of, all kinds of art That they made. Mhmm. It went through, different changes, but it was based on a a few things. But Over some time, it became, let's say, more democratic in a way that, like, poor people could, you know, as opposed to the pharaoh having a pyramid.

Raphael Harry [00:11:31]:

Yes.

Amir Bey [00:11:31]:

Then it became more affordable for people to not only,

Raphael Harry [00:11:36]:

have a coffin.

Amir Bey [00:11:37]:

You know? But you went to a certain person who was Who could paint a portrait on there or could, you know, carve or somebody else who would, you know, do the lettering on it.

Raphael Harry [00:11:46]:

You know,

Amir Bey [00:11:47]:

like mommy This is something that evolved over time, but still, the motivation was different. The motivation was, spiritual, or it was, about, maintaining a tradition, or it was about, like, saying or preserving the Idea of an individual, the individuality of it.

Grace Nkem [00:12:07]:

For centuries, for millennia, painting and sculpture were the only way your face was gonna, Like, there you could have an image of your face

Obinna Elechi [00:12:15]:

Yes.

Grace Nkem [00:12:15]:

And that your descendants could see it or that your political adversaries could see it. Like, And It was painting a story.

Raphael Harry [00:12:21]:

Why a success some successors scratch had it scratched for him.

Amir Bey [00:12:26]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:12:26]:

That's one way of raising somebody from history. The nose off. Yeah. Knocking the nose off. No. Yeah. You know? Yeah. That's how

Amir Bey [00:12:32]:

you The nose thing was because they would That you couldn't breathe. Yeah. Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:12:36]:

So some spirits were outside.

Amir Bey [00:12:38]:

You could not see.

Raphael Harry [00:12:40]:

Oh, man.

Amir Bey [00:12:40]:

I mean, these these

Raphael Harry [00:12:41]:

pettiness was. The whole

Amir Bey [00:12:43]:

Yeah. These have certain, functions. We've been

Raphael Harry [00:12:45]:

betting for a long time. Humanity. They're not getting started. Trade war species. But, yeah. But, yeah, we've we've gone into that that that yeah. Listeners would be like, wow. You get a lot of yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:12:58]:

You use a lot of OOLI and Nsibidi in your work. Yeah?

Obinna Elechi [00:13:01]:

In Nsibidi and yeah. That that's

Raphael Harry [00:13:05]:

Well, for the audience who are not aware of you, can you let them know what those

Obinna Elechi [00:13:10]:

So Nsibidi is, a language written language the, People of Southeastern Nigeria, Igbo people, but not just again, it comes back to this idea of Fluid borders. It's not just Igbo people. Mhmm. When you look at it, people start bleeding over into the Buguma side of things and the river side of things as well, and they're all part of that region. So I found out about Nsibidi at the Brooklyn Museum. When when when there was and that that's for me, that's that's an interesting thing about, like, Things you're told about your history and things you're not told about your history Mhmm. And finding out by accident. Over time.

Obinna Elechi [00:14:01]:

I started

Grace Nkem [00:14:01]:

on Pinterest one day because I Liked, something that looked cool.

Obinna Elechi [00:14:04]:

Yeah. No. That's that's like and and that's it's funny you say that. There's this, Nigerian American author. She wrote the Binti series. It's like a sci-fi.

Raphael Harry [00:14:18]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So she, I started reading she also wrote, Ameri no. No. Americana. The, The the one about the the albinos, the the Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:14:33]:

Akata Witch. Akata Witch. Right. Yeah. So I won't finish the series.

Obinna Elechi [00:14:38]:

If you look at the covers of her books, it has Nsibidi symbols that mean love.

Raphael Harry [00:14:43]:

Oh, okay.

Obinna Elechi [00:14:44]:

Unity, you you'll see those. And Oh,

Raphael Harry [00:14:47]:

that's what it is.

Obinna Elechi [00:14:48]:

She went to a, yeah. There was a post that she made where she, randomly saw something that looked cool, and then she was like, oh, this isn't Nsibidi. This is my people's written text that is As old as, they say, 400 AD that has existed that even a law of Nigerians in Nigeria now. They won't know about that part

Raphael Harry [00:15:13]:

of their history.

Obinna Elechi [00:15:14]:

So for me, I'm trying to scour the Internet for as much information as I can on, You know, who's who is anyone developing this written language any further? And is anyone, You know, pushing it

Raphael Harry [00:15:31]:

Yeah.

Obinna Elechi [00:15:32]:

Because it got cut off at some point, it's development. So for me, the work that I'm doing, hopefully, I'm documenting it. It's kind of self-didactic as well, where it's I'm putting it in the work, but I'm also learning about it as I do it. And I I want that to just Continue to be part of it, so I can learn that written language to a point where it becomes more fluid for me, if possible, in this lifetime. But Yeah. Wow. There's a lot that history, you know, tells or doesn't tell. That's what's interesting.

Raphael Harry [00:16:11]:

Oh, that does. Thank thank you for that question.

Amir Bey [00:16:13]:

I think it's very possible to I mean, maybe kinda repeat what I was saying. Artists can develop, outside of the art School university system.

Raphael Harry [00:16:28]:

Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:16:28]:

And what what artists have to do, for that is to pay attention to their inner voice, You know, to like like, what is it that I feel like doing now? Like, you know, like, maybe 2 a.m., you know, like, to paint something or to take a material and, material and, you know, and to follow it, to follow a theme, through a thorough series of work on it. Like, I have I have 1 area that I began in 76 that has become my lifetime, project, which is I did 36 figures, 4 year period, that became my tarot cards. I have a tarot deck I designed.

Raphael Harry [00:17:15]:

Oh.

Amir Bey [00:17:15]:

And from that, I just keep adding on to them. I do them in metal. I do them as mobile hanging pieces, deck of cards, and, always something that's enriching me in that process. And it's independent, not only just I'm not saying, like, of, European concepts. It's independent of anything. It's something that I developed it. Maybe I've listened and and learned from other cultures, other disciplines, but it's still, like, my vision. And this is what artists have to do is they have to discover or recognize, You know what their vision is and have the courage to, embrace it and continue in showing it, because and that's what we have now because the world is so messed up that we have to develop our inner voices, and we have to have our sharing of Of, what these, inter, private visions are, you know, for other people.

Amir Bey [00:18:18]:

Mhmm. So

Raphael Harry [00:18:22]:

staying on that theme that you just brought up, are there any specific themes or cultural elements that have inspired you at any moment in time? You may have already touched on this, but Just any specific one that you like to give right now.

Amir Bey [00:18:41]:

Well, I'm an occultist. I mean, like, I'm an astrologer. Mhmm. I do coffee readings, and I combine like when I was first when I first came back to New York, an astrologer asked me if he was kind of an old guy. He said, well, you have to make a decision. What are you? Are you an artist, or are you an astrologer? And I thought it never occurred to me that I had to make certain differences about it at all. It's it's like like, 1 is my left 101 is my right hand, but I'm not gonna even say which one is which. Mhmm.

Amir Bey [00:19:13]:

And sometimes if I'm I'm working on a visual piece, I might be studying on a Chart looking at it. Mhmm. Or or I might have an idea to do something visual, from a chart. You know? So, those are the things that carry me. Those are though those disciplines of the occult, along with visual, work to put it together, is, and that began really when I was 12 When I decided that I just wasn't Christian anymore, I decided that I didn't believe in God, and I decided that all that stuff was Like fairy tales,

Raphael Harry [00:19:50]:

not but not the Philippines. Quite early for you. And, you know, you know what's fascinating? Using the word occult because if you're in Nigeria, that would have you you you you it would have ended for you. Yeah. Yeah. You may not have made it.

Obinna Elechi [00:20:03]:

Oh, yeah.

Amir Bey [00:20:04]:

You would have turned this mic off or what?

Raphael Harry [00:20:07]:

Well, back Yeah. If if it was up till the age of, let's say, 23, yeah, I probably could afford you.

Amir Bey [00:20:14]:

Oh, yeah?

Raphael Harry [00:20:15]:

Who has beaten you or something, but, yeah, but, I've seen people being lynched. Yeah. Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:20:20]:

Right. People

Raphael Harry [00:20:21]:

don't people don't people think we don't lynch people? We lynch People, man. Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:20:24]:

Yeah. Oh, yeah. I know. For beliefs and things.

Obinna Elechi [00:20:26]:

Well,

Amir Bey [00:20:26]:

see, that was that was the environment that I grew up in. The thing is, though, I didn't tell anybody once I had that that See, like That was good. I didn't I didn't tell, like, you know, relatives, but it it shocked me because then I said, Wow. Then what happens with, eternal life and the things that are promised about heaven and, you know, like that? And, you know, And then I was in Michigan at the time, so the cold wind of Michigan, you know, I could hear it. It was, like, scaring me. You know? But then I started to and that set me on. I didn't know it, but that set me on a kind of, journey to understand My spirituality and understand what my destiny is, you know, and to create A tarot deck or to develop my concepts of, astrology. And then so finally, I've I'm more tuned into like, I'm not religious.

Amir Bey [00:21:25]:

I'm spiritual. You know? And, that's something that From my experience as an astrologer, as a reader, that I can benefit other people through what I see, in in in, you know, whatever form I'm reading with.

Raphael Harry [00:21:43]:

Nice.

Grace Nkem [00:21:45]:

I think a lot about, my art. It's a question of what's inspiring to

Raphael Harry [00:21:51]:

is there any specific theme or cultural element that inspired you? It could be right now or we just need one moment of something from an example.

Grace Nkem [00:22:02]:

Okay. Themes that hugely inspired me. I'm, my work is definitely surrealist, and I like

Raphael Harry [00:22:09]:

That word. I forgot about it. Like, no.

Grace Nkem [00:22:12]:

Thank you for bringing

Raphael Harry [00:22:12]:

me back.

Grace Nkem [00:22:13]:

Old School 20th century surrealist paintings were it's just really wacky figurative paintings, but also they had such a focus on the subconscious and dreaming. There's a huge element of, like, Carl Jung and union psychoanalysis and stuff in there and dream work. But then more broadly, if I were to say, like, today, what is it? It's like the Internet and what it looks like. Like, visually, what a digital interface looks like Because that feels to me like a huge cultural repository and like a cultural id or subconscious of some kind

Raphael Harry [00:22:43]:

Mhmm. Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:22:43]:

Where It's just this big hive mind of all our humans at our best and our worst. And sometimes, especially if we look at, what algorithms will show us or place, where, the directions in which social media will just, like, veer, And the impact that'll have on reality. Like, it is shaping our culture and our visual culture.

Raphael Harry [00:23:03]:

Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:23:04]:

And I think the way that pops up in my paintings the most is by Kind of having almost collage, like, unrelated elements together because I feel like on a screen, every image exists at the same time. And also, like, just the idea of an interface is like, this is an image, and it you interact with it, but it's also got such a strange surreal, like I'm holding up my phone. I'm sorry that you guys can't see, it for the listeners, but it has such a weird depth of field. It feels almost like a cubist painting if you look at how close the icons on, like, a laptop screen are to, like, like, how far back do you feel like the window goes? Like, a pop-up, a tab, like, Even language that we use to describe visual interfaces has leaked into our, like, real-life vocabulary. And, I just think it's it's yeah. That's if I had to choose an image that, like, really defined the 21st century, it would so be just a digital desktop with a single window open.

Raphael Harry [00:24:02]:

I have it.

Grace Nkem [00:24:02]:

So weird.

Obinna Elechi [00:24:03]:

It's interesting you say that. Like, when you say that looking at your work, there's a Sort of background and foreground, and it's very clear. But you don't realize in reality, there is a random screen With a whole world Yeah. Inside it.

Grace Nkem [00:24:20]:

That's what I yeah.

Obinna Elechi [00:24:20]:

That's weird. That that's

Grace Nkem [00:24:22]:

very clear. One step or something. But I'm really like, how are we The screen's the image we organize a lot of our world around. Mhmm.

Raphael Harry [00:24:31]:

I

Grace Nkem [00:24:31]:

think that I hope my painting reflects that. But I also don't want it to be obvious that I'm Hating screens.

Obinna Elechi [00:24:36]:

No. No. No. No. But that that that opens up a lot.

Raphael Harry [00:24:40]:

It does. Yeah. I have a friend who's been on the podcast a few 2 times now. She's born in China, south Southern China, and She always has this debate that we have going on. We have an ongoing debate, about what is meaningful engagement on social media and what's about and she's I I consider her a little bit wilder than myself when it comes to setting ideas. I'll ask if she can come to the exhibit because it'll be nice if she can come with me when we have our ongoing debates. After all, there are certain ideologies that I'm like, girl, you too you too fat. Yeah. I'll try and she she has I have to see if she's available.

Raphael Harry [00:25:22]:

I don't know if she's back from traveling to California but I have to see if she's back. But, yeah, I try and bring one of my crazies with me. But Nice. Yeah. As Grace was talking, I was like, ah, Grace will. Yeah. You and Grace have to have a conversation together. That would be awesome.

Raphael Harry [00:25:39]:

But, yeah, she would send her this episode. So, Obinna, you have, any

Obinna Elechi [00:25:44]:

Yes. So I'd I'd say, for me, mythology is a source for, lots of inspirational questions. It can be any type. And I think even in pop culture, the bubblegum Marvel comics, that that's A version of mythology Yes. That's being written today and in the movies that you're seeing made about Thor and all these folks in the 21st century now. Mhmm. It's a it's a version of of mythology. And I think for the comic books that, I've been working on the mythology of Christianity and what exactly calls into question, what is the, what are the subtexts of it like you're saying, Amir? What is this heaven and hell, and who told us about that? Was it to get people to pay taxes on time?

Obinna Elechi [00:26:54]:

Like,

Raphael Harry [00:26:55]:

what? Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:26:56]:

It was something yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:26:58]:

They were doing

Amir Bey [00:26:59]:

something like that. I was like I

Raphael Harry [00:27:00]:

never thought losing it that way,

Grace Nkem [00:27:01]:

but that's

Raphael Harry [00:27:02]:

a Go ahead.

Amir Bey [00:27:02]:

It wasn't about happiness.

Obinna Elechi [00:27:04]:

Right. Right. So and

Grace Nkem [00:27:06]:

Gives Caesar what is Caesar.

Obinna Elechi [00:27:08]:

Exactly. And I think that Because, again, coming from Nigeria, religion is so important.

Raphael Harry [00:27:18]:

Mhmm.

Obinna Elechi [00:27:18]:

And you it's such a huge part of your life to have any deviating ideas for yourself in the open. You could find yourself in hot water.

Raphael Harry [00:27:30]:

So Yeah.

Obinna Elechi [00:27:31]:

I think for me calling some of that into question because it affects people's lives and how they Treat other people and themselves. To me, it's important to question some of this stuff because Somebody else made this up. People wrote wrote this over time. It's been edited by different people.

Raphael Harry [00:27:56]:

Yes.

Obinna Elechi [00:27:57]:

And for you to just accept that as is, to me, is kind of Problematic. So just how did this book get to become what it is?

Amir Bey [00:28:11]:

It's it a compilation of the Bible? Yes. Yes. I mean, these are all different people who wrote it years after

Raphael Harry [00:28:18]:

Right.

Amir Bey [00:28:18]:

I'm talking about the g you know, like, Jesus I mean, about 4 or 5 different writers Exactly. That that

Raphael Harry [00:28:25]:

that wrote that.

Obinna Elechi [00:28:26]:

Right. Yeah. And then, Like, when you find out that there are even even if you say, okay. Let's stay in the world of the bible. There are apocryphal texts. Mhmm. Why are those why were those removed?

Raphael Harry [00:28:38]:

Yep. Yep.

Obinna Elechi [00:28:39]:

Someone edited that. Someone decided to remove those for a reason, On and on and on and on. And then if you get to the sci-fi level of it, why would a 5th-dimensional being beyond time care about what third-dimensional creatures are doing?

Grace Nkem [00:28:58]:

Why do we play The

Amir Bey [00:29:00]:

You you know? Exact exactly. Exactly.

Raphael Harry [00:29:03]:

You reminded me of a panel that I attended at, this this year's Comic Con. There was Somebody with a comic book. Mhmm. I have to remember the title of his comic book. When he said it, I was like, man, they can't let you into the state of Texas. That's what he said. That's right. Hi, everyone.

Raphael Harry [00:29:21]:

If you're new to the podcast or a returning listener and you enjoy what we are doing here, did you know that you could enjoy more of our content and also support our work via Patreon? For as little as $3 per month, you'll get access to loads of bonus content that you'll find nowhere, and be the first to latest news. Don't miss out. Go to patreon.com/whitelabelamericanpod, or just search for White Label American podcast on Patreon, patre0n. It also reminded me of one of my favorite, graphic novels from Neil Gaiman. He's a fave of mine. And that was adapted into a show, which unfortunately didn't work out. But, there's a scene from One of my favorite episodes is, American Gods, which is one of my favorite books. Mhmm.

Raphael Harry [00:30:19]:

One of my faves. And in, I think it was the 1st season. Yeah. It was the 1st or 2nd season. Oh, it was 1st season. And I think the the end of 1st season, they are they come to visit Easter. And because it's all the gods. Mhmm.

Raphael Harry [00:30:36]:

And if anyone was not familiar with it, it's everybody who ended up in America, they brought their gods with them. Enslaved people, whatever people, and indigenous people also have their gods, and you see their gods in human form. And so Easter has her place where she lives, and it's It's it's that time. Everybody's hanging out there, and they discover, hey. There's Jesus here too.

Obinna Elechi [00:30:59]:

Right.

Raphael Harry [00:30:59]:

And Then it is, oh, it's not 1 Jesus. There are multiple Jesuses who are here. And like, hey. Yeah. You know, he's very popular, and that's why there's so many of them. Mhmm. And it's like, yeah. Because people kept bringing their Jesus Jesus with them from wherever they came from, it's a representation of Wherever you come from, it's Asian looking, Jesus.

Raphael Harry [00:31:21]:

There's a Japanese-looking Jesus. There's the black Jesus. Whatever. Every Jesus is there, and they're just and they're so popular, and And all the other guys are like, man, we hate this guy, man. He gets all the popular than everybody. And it was one of the most hilarious episodes I've seen, but, You know? It's it's on stars, I believe. So not many caught that episode, but it's the message in that episode was it it's just Funny, but I know it went to many people's heads because I saw what people were writing online that day, and I'm like, you don't get it. It's And one thing, to what Amir said in part 1 when you brought up, Greek mythology.

Raphael Harry [00:31:56]:

You know, it took me a while to get it, but somebody mentioned that those the the Greek stories and I think Roman also It wasn't about, oh, the gods were great. Because I think as a kid, when when I first read it, I think that's what I used to get from them. And I think I was too young to be reading Greek encyclopedia, so I didn't Understand I was reading, but it was always a warning. It was it's a warning tale that they are messing up. That's what the story is always about. Right. They're messing up with power, and it gets over their heads. Mhmm.

Raphael Harry [00:32:28]:

And many people took that to be like, I wanna be like them. Mhmm. I won't be like them, and we get the wrong interpretation. And I always love how people retell details now, and Somehow just like even Star Wars. Mhmm. People like, oh, Empire is cool. Yeah. You know? Forget it wrong.

Raphael Harry [00:32:46]:

That's like, They don't have to tell you in black and white, but they've shown you how they have oppressed people, how the uniforms, everything is there, and you're still like, they're cool. They're still cool. That's the message I'm getting from you. I'm like, okay. Well

Obinna Elechi [00:33:05]:

Yeah. Good

Raphael Harry [00:33:06]:

luck with that.

Grace Nkem [00:33:06]:

Nostalgic over Sleeast. People get nostalgic over the British Empire

Raphael Harry [00:33:11]:

Right. Like, this day. And they gave us tea. That's what somebody said. They gave us

Grace Nkem [00:33:15]:

gave us tea.

Raphael Harry [00:33:16]:

I like that. I'm like, yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:33:18]:

Very, like, sympathetic, generous reading of, like, early Christianity as basically, like, one of the Roman cult religions because Rome had a ton of cult religions. Like, with anyone they ran into that you'd have some kind of local god and, like, Apollo form a cult or Bethlehem or whatever. Right. And then, like, a lot of the Bible's written, like, 100 Bethlehem or whatever. And then, like, a lot of the Bible's written, like, hundreds of years after the fact. Right. Mhmm. It just kinda went out of control and spiraled into, like, this megalithic bureaucratic apparatus called the Catholic church.

Amir Bey [00:33:55]:

Yep. Well, I

Raphael Harry [00:33:56]:

I Well, you

Amir Bey [00:33:57]:

know, it's great.

Raphael Harry [00:33:57]:

About one thing, though. I think everybody skips about one thing.

Grace Nkem [00:34:00]:

Constant. Yeah. If 1 is constant.

Raphael Harry [00:34:02]:

If an emperor didn't embrace, doesn't convert Yeah. Then you don't have power. Yeah. Because

Grace Nkem [00:34:07]:

if Yeah.

Raphael Harry [00:34:08]:

It was religions

Amir Bey [00:34:10]:

It was a new regime,

Grace Nkem [00:34:11]:

which allowed it The communist

Raphael Harry [00:34:12]:

All other religions that existed then, you know, attained that power. Yeah. Once you attain that power, you control a whole large territory.

Amir Bey [00:34:20]:

When the Romans when the Romans decided that I mean, I can't remember which, emperor, but when he decided, No. I think it was

Raphael Harry [00:34:30]:

a custom thing.

Grace Nkem [00:34:32]:

Oh, which who wait? Who converted Rome? Who was like, we're Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:34:35]:

He decided that the whole All the whole empire was going to have to become Christian.

Grace Nkem [00:34:43]:

That's right.

Amir Bey [00:34:43]:

It was and it was just all

Raphael Harry [00:34:45]:

about Oh, yeah. Constantine was the guy who Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:34:48]:

But there was a guy. I think his name is

Raphael Harry [00:34:50]:

Romano. D.

Amir Bey [00:34:51]:

I can't not the mission, but but one of them was before constant because Constantine was He was a thinker, but he was not necessarily, but somebody said, okay. All these all the countries in the empire The whole empire, not the country, the whole empire will now become Christian, and that was one part of it. Then the other part of it was that They just took the existing, traditions. Like, for instance, Isis, was she had holy water. Mhmm. You know? So they took the holy water of her. And if you look at the pope, you look at the ceremonies, It very goes it goes back to ancient Egypt. I mean, just the visual thing, the whole process of what they do.

Amir Bey [00:35:37]:

Then this is this Came from ancient Egypt. So they use that, but then they also use that okay. Monotheism. Okay. Monotheism. Historitarian. Yes. But what happened to Mary? What happened to the goddess, Isis? In other words, they did away with the woman, the priestess, the goddess.

Amir Bey [00:35:58]:

They did they did away with the goddess, and, they they stuck the Holy Ghost in there.

Raphael Harry [00:36:04]:

Right.

Amir Bey [00:36:04]:

So you had the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost. What happened to the mother? And then, you know, like, if you look at ancient Egypt, going back to them, they had a they had a each area had a, a triad. Mhmm. And you had, the father, the male god, you had the female god, and then you had a a child. See? So Christianity did away with the woman, and they did away with the power of the priestess.

Grace Nkem [00:36:33]:

I'd say Catholicism gave us like Mary.

Amir Bey [00:36:36]:

No. But they took Mary as the mother. They didn't take her as as a as a deity. She was not a deity. She was the She was the mother see, now my joke about that is and you might don't kill me about this. My joke about this is that when Mary you know, Joseph was an old guy, And Mary was having this affair. She and I this is the way I tell the story and the guy, he was this Ethiopian carpenter down the block. Okay.

Amir Bey [00:37:03]:

So old Joseph. So one day she came, hey, Joseph. We're gonna have bod God's child. Oh, really? Yes.

Grace Nkem [00:37:11]:

Over it.

Amir Bey [00:37:12]:

Yeah. And in the meantime, my man

Grace Nkem [00:37:15]:

say, honey.

Amir Bey [00:37:16]:

Yeah. Yeah. So this this is what I put anyway.

Raphael Harry [00:37:19]:

Al pachino just had a baby at 87.

Amir Bey [00:37:21]:

That's what happened. So if you look at after Christianity, you have to ask what happened to the priestess? What happened to What happened to the female deity that had power? That was the fertility goddess. Mhmm. You know? Instead, you had this bland, Like, the holy ghost.

Obinna Elechi [00:37:42]:

Right.

Amir Bey [00:37:42]:

You know? That's that was just, And and then from that time on, you know, so if you look at all the other cultures, okay, like, if you look at African cultures, if you look at Indian cultures, I mean, There's a role for the woman, and the woman had power.

Raphael Harry [00:37:59]:

You've always had power. Women have always had power in every I

Amir Bey [00:38:02]:

think But but Christianity, though, they they took the role of the priestess out of Christianity, and that's why so the nun does does not equal what She does not equal what the the priestess of ancient times did.

Raphael Harry [00:38:16]:

Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:38:16]:

You know? The the nun is just sort of, like, subservient to To the priest. Not a power not a force of of, you know and then if you go back to, like like, say, going back to ancient Egypt when The the, you know, Hatshepsut, you know, who was she was a powerful Yeah. Queen. Okay? She She was like one of her roles as the wife of, Amon was, you know, to make love with him as a son. She made love to the sun as he rose in the morning. So she had power. She was not a nun. You know? She was not you know? And so that's also

Grace Nkem [00:38:54]:

an exception to the rule.

Amir Bey [00:38:56]:

Well no. But I mean, in general, though, you had priestesses who had power. That was what the role of the priestess was. That was She was exceptional as far as wanting the the that power of of of the, barrel. As a man wearing a suit. But but but if you had priestesses who had, like, Unquestionable power, and you had I mean, the force of the goddesses that, you know, that existed then was was something that, Did not come about after Christianity. You know?

Raphael Harry [00:39:24]:

It's alright. But, that that would be a great topic to continue on. But She

Grace Nkem [00:39:28]:

can't denigrate Mary too much, though. Yeah. She's a very interesting Mister

Amir Bey [00:39:31]:

Wade, no. She is, but she she does not equal she does not.

Raphael Harry [00:39:33]:

We're not denigrating Mary.

Amir Bey [00:39:35]:

Not equal the princesses of And I I

Raphael Harry [00:39:37]:

also have one of my favorite

Amir Bey [00:39:38]:

Isis. There's a total different, thing, and you can see that in Mary. And then if you go past Mary in other words, if you go past the Catholic church, Then you the Protestants are even worse. I I no

Grace Nkem [00:39:51]:

offense to

Amir Bey [00:39:52]:

everyone. Protestants don't have

Grace Nkem [00:39:53]:

Protestantism is a little

Amir Bey [00:39:55]:

Protestants don't even have

Raphael Harry [00:39:56]:

Yeah. Everybody But, Larry,

Amir Bey [00:39:59]:

they don't have to marry like like, Catholicism has.

Grace Nkem [00:40:02]:

Catholicism is borderline pagan when it comes to, like,

Amir Bey [00:40:04]:

some people. Catholicism is really,

Raphael Harry [00:40:06]:

like, Closer to the ancient way of approaching former Proudly.

Grace Nkem [00:40:10]:

Catholic and East Orthodox. There's something, like, bordering on, like, the beautiful occultist of paganism, but Protestantism. I walk into an empty church. I'm like, what are you people doing?

Raphael Harry [00:40:18]:

That's

Grace Nkem [00:40:19]:

The walls are barren.

Raphael Harry [00:40:20]:

And did I even drink wine?

Grace Nkem [00:40:22]:

Drink a drink. I'm like, what At

Raphael Harry [00:40:23]:

At least drink wine.

Grace Nkem [00:40:24]:

I'm just kidding. I'm I'm

Amir Bey [00:40:25]:

I'm No. But that's real. That's But

Grace Nkem [00:40:27]:

I really think

Amir Bey [00:40:27]:

That's what happened. I think that if you look at its evolution it, you see that the Catholic church was closer to the ancient ways. And then and then and then after them, the protestants And the Puritans

Raphael Harry [00:40:41]:

Oh, yes.

Amir Bey [00:40:41]:

Who are even worse than

Raphael Harry [00:40:42]:

the than how you operate. You know? I think it's not like iconoclasm.

Amir Bey [00:40:46]:

I cannot

Grace Nkem [00:40:46]:

that's that's my issue with, like, radical, Islam, like destroying the

Raphael Harry [00:40:51]:

Yes. Yes.

Grace Nkem [00:40:51]:

Also the Bamiyan Buddhas.

Raphael Harry [00:40:53]:

Yeah. It's in, eastern Yeah. I've got to stand.

Grace Nkem [00:40:56]:

I'm like We've lost our students. Class. It's because I hate the destruction of material history.

Raphael Harry [00:41:01]:

It just drives me insane. Get me

Amir Bey [00:41:02]:

on that.

Grace Nkem [00:41:03]:

Like images in churches because so much

Raphael Harry [00:41:05]:

Unfortunately, we don't have enough time to cover all that. So we are we have to start wrapping up, and, there are 2 fun questions that I you know. Yeah. I know there might be somebody who's writing and already penning down their letter. But before you write your letter down

Grace Nkem [00:41:21]:

No such thing as bad press.

Raphael Harry [00:41:23]:

Yeah. Yeah. No. No. No. No. That's not about I'm not even worried about that. They are not big enough for anybody to try anything.

Raphael Harry [00:41:28]:

But if anybody wants to complain, have you bought my merch? Go to buy it first. Buy it. Set it on fire. Preferably shoot it. Make a video of yourself shooting it. But if you don't if I see fake merch, I'm not even gonna I'm just gonna I I will tag you and reporting for for for supporting fraud. So buy the real thing and then set it on fire or shoot it. Do whatever you do.

Raphael Harry [00:41:52]:

You know, when you get mad. Alright. So, you guys all live in New York, and You all have been influenced by multiple cultures. You know? You have different cultures in your life, but you can't be New Yorker without loving good food. So for creative people like yourself, What is your go-to cuisine?

Grace Nkem [00:42:19]:

Thai.

Raphael Harry [00:42:20]:

Thai. Where we're cutting time on this podcast. Alright. That was quick. You you you I Nothing nothing Russian. Wow. Alright. Right.

Raphael Harry [00:42:27]:

Hey, Russians, start a good one you're writing and complaining. I'll give you Grace's email. You get to file your complaint right there. Russians are feeling free. Oh, wow. That's a good idea.

Grace Nkem [00:42:39]:

Grandma made it, but I'm not trying to go out.

Raphael Harry [00:42:41]:

Shots fired. Shots fired.

Amir Bey [00:42:43]:

Alright. Alright.

Obinna Elechi [00:42:47]:

For me, I mean, it's Gotta betray somebody. Don't worry. It's cliche, but Nigerian food, it's not quite as good as if you get a portion of food. Food. But that's one.

Raphael Harry [00:42:56]:

Which one? Gotta betray somebody in Nigeria too. Egusi Soup. Egusi. Mhmm. That guy. This guy is busy. That is busy.

Obinna Elechi [00:43:03]:

Exactly. It's it's it's very basic part.

Raphael Harry [00:43:05]:

I use Egusi to introduce people to Nigerian cuisine.

Obinna Elechi [00:43:08]:

No. But if I had to pick a New York place, that's not necessarily I would say there's a

Raphael Harry [00:43:14]:

Don't mention the enemy of this podcast.

Obinna Elechi [00:43:16]:

No. No. No. No.

Raphael Harry [00:43:17]:

The enemy of this podcast would Stop recording. Oh, yeah.

Amir Bey [00:43:20]:

That's cool. No.

Raphael Harry [00:43:21]:

That we'll have to find out. Let's see what he will say first. There's pass the test.

Obinna Elechi [00:43:25]:

On, in Crown Heights, On the corner of Kingston and Throop. There's a there's a corner store that makes the best Halal food you've ever had in New York Oh, I thought you were Fight me on that.

Raphael Harry [00:43:36]:

I thought it was a Nigerian place you were No.

Obinna Elechi [00:43:38]:

No. No. No.

Raphael Harry [00:43:39]:

What was the name of that place?

Obinna Elechi [00:43:41]:

That's the thing. I can't remember.

Raphael Harry [00:43:42]:

Oh, okay.

Obinna Elechi [00:43:43]:

It's it's it's a basic

Raphael Harry [00:43:44]:

walk. There?

Obinna Elechi [00:43:45]:

I know how to walk there. Okay.

Raphael Harry [00:43:46]:

That's good. That's good to know.

Obinna Elechi [00:43:47]:

Kingston and Threw, the best halal food.

Raphael Harry [00:43:49]:

Alright. Halal food. I thought I thought it was the Nigerian place you're about There's there's other places. There's 1 Nigerian place.

Obinna Elechi [00:43:55]:

The green place is also Wait.

Raphael Harry [00:43:56]:

Wait. Wait. What did you say? Buka. Oh, lord. You mentioned the enemy. I'm gonna mess yeah. Well,

Amir Bey [00:44:03]:

in terms of Scratch,

Raphael Harry [00:44:04]:

delete, water, delete that from me. That's scratch that.

Amir Bey [00:44:07]:

I'm more or less, an internationalist In a way I mean, I like a lot of different types of food.

Raphael Harry [00:44:13]:

But in New York, there's food from all over the world. Yeah. No. In Dubai,

Amir Bey [00:44:16]:

that's something that

Raphael Harry [00:44:17]:

this stuff. They're all New York cuisines now. Yeah. I mean We've we've it's something I'm I go full American

Amir Bey [00:44:22]:

for that. I'm like I like American food. Uh-huh. I like Mexican food.

Raphael Harry [00:44:26]:

No. No. You gotta choose. We gotta be 1. We gotta Well, some other countries don't come after you because you didn't call them.

Amir Bey [00:44:32]:

But I tell you, though, I've seen some West African food. The colors Of, like, certain yams and certain things, like, just the brightness of the colors, you know, and then that spicy fish next to it. But I'll let you on a little secret, though. What? And I know I'm taking my life, and, you know, like,

Raphael Harry [00:44:50]:

risk my life. The reason this question exists.

Amir Bey [00:44:53]:

I make the best I make the best Sorrell.

Raphael Harry [00:44:57]:

Oh, I'm

Grace Nkem [00:44:57]:

in Sorrell.

Amir Bey [00:44:58]:

In the Western Hemisphere. Are you sure? I mean

Raphael Harry [00:45:01]:

I mean Sorrell. You did. But it's called Zobo. We call it Zobo.

Amir Bey [00:45:05]:

Yeah. I mean, it's it's worldwide because, I mean, you can go to Egypt. They make it they make it No. That's disgusting. Yeah. But I make I make it very good. You know? Like, what do

Raphael Harry [00:45:13]:

Do you want? Maybe if I

Amir Bey [00:45:13]:

have some, I'll bring it, at the opening.

Raphael Harry [00:45:16]:

Well, what what what

Grace Nkem [00:45:17]:

is the Sorrel like the green leafy stuff that just grows?

Amir Bey [00:45:19]:

No. Not that because the green leafy stuff is different than what the Sorrel that, I'm talking about that is made all around the world is, from the hibiscus Yeah. Flower. And it's red, and It's also very good to hear from you.

Raphael Harry [00:45:34]:

Do you use ginger in yours?

Amir Bey [00:45:35]:

I use ginger. I use, cayenne. I use, Yeah. I use Alright.

Raphael Harry [00:45:40]:

You got some lemon and lime. You have an extra small, honey. I do. I'll give you that. I'll give you that. I was gonna con challenge you, but no. No. No.

Amir Bey [00:45:47]:

No. No.

Raphael Harry [00:45:47]:

I'm telling you. This dwell.

Amir Bey [00:45:48]:

Tell do

Grace Nkem [00:45:48]:

I change My answer.

Raphael Harry [00:45:50]:

No. No. Just tell. Don't don't

Grace Nkem [00:45:51]:

don't don't. Uzbekistan. Uzbekistan.

Raphael Harry [00:45:53]:

You had the opportunity. I was I thought you'd go there.

Grace Nkem [00:45:56]:

Go to Brighton Beach. No. No. Go to Tash Kent Mark

Amir Bey [00:45:58]:

Brighton Beach has some good food.

Grace Nkem [00:46:00]:

It's the Uzbeks.

Amir Bey [00:46:01]:

When you said

Grace Nkem [00:46:01]:

and you

Amir Bey [00:46:02]:

said, yeah, you'll

Raphael Harry [00:46:03]:

have the

Amir Bey [00:46:03]:

oh, yeah. When you said when you said your family went

Raphael Harry [00:46:06]:

to Yeah.

Amir Bey [00:46:06]:

I have that's the first thing I thought about Was the delis in Brighton, BC?

Raphael Harry [00:46:10]:

I thought I thought you should go Uzbek, but she went No. No. No.

Amir Bey [00:46:13]:

No. No.

Raphael Harry [00:46:14]:

They had it, yeah, first.

Obinna Elechi [00:46:16]:

No Taymax.

Grace Nkem [00:46:17]:

Like, oh, I should go to jail

Raphael Harry [00:46:18]:

because nobody nobody had it gone to you. You just said it tie immediately. I was like, wow. That was

Amir Bey [00:46:23]:

Oh, I tell you,

Raphael Harry [00:46:23]:

you know, I was

Grace Nkem [00:46:24]:

planning Stop it.

Amir Bey [00:46:25]:

Though, Arabella Mhmm. Inaris makes some very good food. I went to her house about a couple of weeks ago.

Raphael Harry [00:46:31]:

Okay.

Amir Bey [00:46:31]:

And that was some dynamite food. She's being Gosh. She's not gonna talk about it, but it was pretty good. Alright.

Raphael Harry [00:46:37]:

Check it out. Next question that's gonna be you know, another question that might get you in some trouble because that that's all this question is.

Amir Bey [00:46:44]:

Let's go to trouble.

Raphael Harry [00:46:45]:

Yes. That's all I'm about now. You know, we've left the Knowledge will come into trouble territory. So everybody who appears on this podcast is considered a dancer. If you claim you don't dance, we'll stop recording and kick you out of the studio. So You have to

Amir Bey [00:47:00]:

get up and stand on this and start dancing? Come on. Come on. Come

Raphael Harry [00:47:06]:

on. Yeah. We already know, you we already know you. You're a fool that time dancer, so it's all good. So we need you to give us at least 3 artists that can keep you dancing for a minimum of an hour. But here's the caveat. Wait. Wait.

Raphael Harry [00:47:23]:

Wait. Wait. We know we know some people gonna give us some names that are, like, very popular, the most popular names. No Bon Appoy. No, Beyonce. No, Michael Jackson. You can't give us those top of the most popular names. Now some of you have multi-cultural backgrounds, you can give us names from, you know, the different countries.

Raphael Harry [00:47:42]:

Fine. But you can't give us the most popular names. So who wants to go first?

Amir Bey [00:47:45]:

Well, I just heard, like, I meant Abdullah, who's a trumpet player who lives in Brooklyn.

Raphael Harry [00:47:51]:

Oh, no.

Amir Bey [00:47:51]:

I I he did some funky, fun stuff with a big band he had. And then also William Parker, you know, he did some really good stuff too. And now he played they all are capable of playing very out Kind of innovative music, but then, you know, they I heard them recently do stuff that was so funky and so much fun That is like what the world needs. The world needs this kind of funky fun stuff.

Raphael Harry [00:48:17]:

Alright. Who's your third artist? They mentioned 2.

Amir Bey [00:48:20]:

Oh, you wanna move the 3rd one? Yeah. And it can't be, like, James Brown or somebody.

Raphael Harry [00:48:23]:

I mean, James Brown, he he's he you know, but he brought the funk, but he's he's up there. He's up there with the most popular names. Wow. I mean

Amir Bey [00:48:31]:

Okay. Because, you know, you really can keep trying to Yeah. I don't know how much time we have for me to think about the third one.

Raphael Harry [00:48:37]:

Alright. You've given us 2. Let's go. We'll go to it while you think about it

Amir Bey [00:48:40]:

Okay. I'll I'll mention, this is this is, like, favoritism here. I'll mention, Sako, Miyoji.

Raphael Harry [00:48:49]:

Yeah. K.

Amir Bey [00:48:50]:

From Japan. From Japan. Very good. Very good, Saiko instrumentalist. Saiko, yes, s a c o. Miogi. And she will be playing, by the way, with, Kevin Nathaniel at the reception. They'll be playing Imbira together.

Amir Bey [00:49:06]:

Alright. Yeah. So check it out. If you don't if you don't think of maybe Amir's making that name up even Alright. They come to the opening. They're gonna hit at 7 o'clock, and it's just gonna be 9 o' Mike. Alrighty.

Grace Nkem [00:49:18]:

340 East 64th Street, 6 to 8 PM, November 30th. Be there or be square.

Raphael Harry [00:49:24]:

Alrighty. So that's it. That that that you still gotta drop your artist.

Grace Nkem [00:49:28]:

Oh, yeah. Okay. So

Raphael Harry [00:49:29]:

skip.

Grace Nkem [00:49:29]:

William Onyebo. Oh, sorry. I hit the table.

Amir Bey [00:49:32]:

You must have hit the table. No?

Grace Nkem [00:49:35]:

I apologize.

Raphael Harry [00:49:36]:

Alright. Will William William Far? Only about. He's

Grace Nkem [00:49:39]:

got the he's the guy in the cowboy hat.

Raphael Harry [00:49:40]:

Oh, I mean, I don't think I know him.

Grace Nkem [00:49:42]:

A good name is better than silver and gold.

Raphael Harry [00:49:45]:

Okay. I don't hear that.

Amir Bey [00:49:46]:

Wow. Do you sing too?

Raphael Harry [00:49:47]:

No. Wow. Hey. You just did. You just did.

Grace Nkem [00:49:51]:

Incredible. And then fella Coochie is

Raphael Harry [00:49:53]:

hell no. Hell. I just said no, boner boy. No. Go Michael Jackson and you go put fella. So fella is not popular. What? Really?

Grace Nkem [00:50:01]:

Well, okay. At least,

Raphael Harry [00:50:02]:

Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:50:03]:

Someone at 26,000 old

Raphael Harry [00:50:05]:

I need a buzzer. Where's the buzzer sound, bro?

Grace Nkem [00:50:08]:

Among my peers, when I play it, people are like, oh my god. Who's this?

Raphael Harry [00:50:12]:

You're

Grace Nkem [00:50:12]:

only gonna need

Raphael Harry [00:50:13]:

new peers. You need new peers. Okay.

Grace Nkem [00:50:15]:

Yeah. And then

Raphael Harry [00:50:16]:

is needed. Who wants to apply?

Grace Nkem [00:50:18]:

My 3rd

Raphael Harry [00:50:19]:

Grace needs new peers.

Grace Nkem [00:50:20]:

ABBA. They're popular. I know they're okay.

Raphael Harry [00:50:24]:

No. You know what? I'm absolutely

Amir Bey [00:50:25]:

Who do you know? Nobody knows. You

Raphael Harry [00:50:27]:

can have

Amir Bey [00:50:27]:

the studio.

Raphael Harry [00:50:28]:

Somebody's. Once I'm out of the studio. I'm leaving. I'm leaving. I'm leaving. Your time.

Amir Bey [00:50:31]:

Give your buddies airtime now. Yo. I know so and so.

Grace Nkem [00:50:34]:

That nobody

Raphael Harry [00:50:35]:

know. I think I'm allowed James Brown. I'm you're gonna I'm gonna allow Faran, Abba. Not many people have been fighting me to allow Faran to the on the show.

Grace Nkem [00:50:42]:

I like to dance to Solange Knowles's music.

Raphael Harry [00:50:45]:

Okay. I see the technicality you try to pull there because I didn't allow the big system. I mean, you try

Grace Nkem [00:50:51]:

I'm just Alright.

Amir Bey [00:50:52]:

Well, I'll just

Grace Nkem [00:50:52]:

a Beyonce fan. I So

Raphael Harry [00:50:53]:

long we're not lying. We're not lying. No. No. No. No. No blasphemy I mean, allowed on this Oh. No.

Raphael Harry [00:51:03]:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:51:03]:

Do you guys wanna fight me and fight me?

Amir Bey [00:51:05]:

No doubt. No. No. No. No. No.

Raphael Harry [00:51:07]:

The I love I love the Hive. You know? I love Hive People, you know, I'm I'm I'm a fan of you guys. Still by my mesh too. Yeah. Alright. So, Lanji, who do you get from Russia? Do you guys have somebody?

Grace Nkem [00:51:21]:

Is a Belo Russian.

Raphael Harry [00:51:22]:

Yeah. I ain't gonna try it

Grace Nkem [00:51:23]:

right now. Very funny.

Amir Bey [00:51:25]:

Can't say pussy, Ryan.

Raphael Harry [00:51:26]:

Send me the name. Send me the name because I'm never gonna try to write that down because, yeah.

Grace Nkem [00:51:30]:

Will do. Yeah. They're very gothic. They sound a lot like a British eighties golf band. Oh.

Raphael Harry [00:51:37]:

There's not a lot of television. I know somebody I'll send that to. He will

Grace Nkem [00:51:41]:

I like him. I've seen him play in Brooklyn a couple of times. Oh. But now they're popular enough that the Shows are, like, really big and expensive.

Raphael Harry [00:51:47]:

Oh, okay.

Obinna Elechi [00:51:48]:

Alright. That looks good.

Grace Nkem [00:51:50]:

Or like, Alokuba Cheva. That's a popular

Raphael Harry [00:51:53]:

She you you have artist, and you were hell, don't do that yourself. This will

Grace Nkem [00:51:57]:

makes you wanna dance, though. Like, sorry. Wait. Did they

Raphael Harry [00:52:00]:

did they make you wanna dance or not?

Grace Nkem [00:52:02]:

Not out. No. No. But, yeah, there's a lot of bass.

Raphael Harry [00:52:06]:

Okay. Alright. You shouldn't have this should be easy for you because The Dutch have some dance music coming out from there right now. To See,

Obinna Elechi [00:52:16]:

I don't know any new Dutch.

Raphael Harry [00:52:20]:

It doesn't have to be new. It can be

Amir Bey [00:52:21]:

Right now.

Raphael Harry [00:52:22]:

It can be from

Grace Nkem [00:52:23]:

Stromae Dutch?

Raphael Harry [00:52:24]:

No. Stromae is Belgian. Spell g.

Obinna Elechi [00:52:26]:

He makes a really good sound.

Raphael Harry [00:52:27]:

And that my daughter likes Stromae. I love Stromae.

Obinna Elechi [00:52:29]:

He's he's really good.

Raphael Harry [00:52:30]:

So I can I can let Stromae for technicality for technicality because nobody has figured out which Romeo exists? This this,

Obinna Elechi [00:52:41]:

I don't know if it's if it's all dance, but, Troye

Amir Bey [00:52:45]:

Yimois. Yeah.

Obinna Elechi [00:52:46]:

He's a, he's a, a musician from I wanna say California.

Grace Nkem [00:52:53]:

I I think

Obinna Elechi [00:52:54]:

I think he's West Coast.

Raphael Harry [00:52:56]:

Okay.

Obinna Elechi [00:52:56]:

But, Thundercat is also another

Raphael Harry [00:53:00]:

Thundercat. Oh, awesome. Oh, that sounds familiar. I know familiar. And

Obinna Elechi [00:53:13]:

I'm blanking on his name now.

Amir Bey [00:53:17]:

It can

Raphael Harry [00:53:17]:

be a woman. It can be Oh, anyway. Nonbinary. I

Grace Nkem [00:53:22]:

don't know.

Raphael Harry [00:53:25]:

That's I I don't think on

Amir Bey [00:53:27]:

your account.

Obinna Elechi [00:53:28]:

Dad Green.

Raphael Harry [00:53:29]:

If you wanna drop if you wanna go old, old school and drop a Yankauer, I'll let that slide. Good. Alright.

Obinna Elechi [00:53:35]:

TAMS TAMS is good.

Raphael Harry [00:53:36]:

TAMS. Oh, lord. That's,

Amir Bey [00:53:38]:

Wait. Wait. That that

Raphael Harry [00:53:39]:

That's popular. That's that that's cheating. That's true.

Obinna Elechi [00:53:42]:

Fair enough. She is she is glowing.

Raphael Harry [00:53:44]:

That's true. She is glowing. It's, yeah. Yeah. But alright. So you you you send me a name too. Send me a name later because All that goes on into my music playlist.

Amir Bey [00:53:53]:

Alright.

Raphael Harry [00:53:53]:

And I have my checks, and then they pass the test, and then they get into my playlist. Alright. That's why I have my place when people come to my party. Oh, man. Where where is where is music from? Wow. You you got music out. Nobody I'm not here. That's why I'm special.

Raphael Harry [00:54:07]:

That's Alright. So can't thank you all enough for coming on the show. Walter's I've gone way past the time. Walter's about to pull my hat and drag me out of the studio. So, as my people say, for coming here, and my wife says, and, my East African bodies would say, Asante sana. And, yeah, I've I know too many thank yous from all the guests who've been on over 160 episodes. I collect thank yous from all over the world. The final thing, if you like to leave the audience with your freestyle moment, we gotta keep it short.

Raphael Harry [00:54:43]:

So, yeah, what would you like to leave the audience with? Who would like to go?

Obinna Elechi [00:54:49]:

Kingston Throop. Best Halal food in New York. Oh. In Crown Heights. That's

Amir Bey [00:54:59]:

Well, if you wanna check out some slamming artwork, okay, come to 340 East 64th Street Between Was It First and Second Avenue? Mhmm. On Thursday, we're gonna have a grand opening of some dynamic artists Mhmm. And, you know, like, just meant to, like, Show the new way, the new direction in life. That's what we're working for.

Raphael Harry [00:55:29]:

And by Thursday, you mean November 30th? November 30th. Alrighty. Right. Awesome. And what's your

Grace Nkem [00:55:38]:

No. I can't think of anything.

Raphael Harry [00:55:40]:

Anything you say from the hash.

Grace Nkem [00:55:42]:

The working class has nothing to lose, but their chains workers of the world Unite Alrighty. Nobody likes that.

Raphael Harry [00:55:50]:

People it's a freestyle moment. It works. It's great. Stop. Gotta stay united. So I heard this. You again. Appreciate y'all.

Raphael Harry [00:56:01]:

Please let the people know where they can find you. And if they wanna stay in touch with You how can I get, yeah, how can I get in touch with you? Plug yourself in, please.

Grace Nkem [00:56:08]:

My Instagram is grcnkm, and that's where I post my paintings.

Raphael Harry [00:56:13]:

Alright.

Amir Bey [00:56:16]:

Wow. Jeeves. I can't remember, my Instagram. Yeah. Morirojo 484.

Raphael Harry [00:56:24]:

Thank you. Right.

Amir Bey [00:56:25]:

Okay. That was my first address.

Raphael Harry [00:56:27]:

I'll I'll have the show links. I'll have them in the show links too. So don't worry

Amir Bey [00:56:30]:

if you can't remember. M o y o r o h o 484 Instagram. Otherwise, my name, is Amir Bey On, Facebook and, you know,

Obinna Elechi [00:56:44]:

Alright. My Instagram is BlakRobot. That's b l a k robot, all one word. Alrighty.

Amir Bey [00:56:53]:

Yeah. 1st, I said bloke who's Black Robot?

Raphael Harry [00:56:57]:

Black who's that? So who my man is? Black Robot? Okay. Oh, lord. It's a

Obinna Elechi [00:57:03]:

goofy name. I think it was my AIM screen name, way back when AIM was an Oh, god.

Raphael Harry [00:57:09]:

Alright. And thank you to Arabella who's been quiet in the studio for bringing everybody here.

Amir Bey [00:57:13]:

Very shy.

Raphael Harry [00:57:15]:

Yeah. Yeah. And, yeah. So please stay tuned, and we'll be on the lookout for the next episode. And please support these guys and come check them out at the exhibits. You might meet me there too. So hey. Thank you for the privilege of your company.

Raphael Harry [00:57:29]:

See you at the next episode. Thanks for listening to White Label American. If you enjoy the show, please give a 5-star review on your favorite podcast app. You can follow the show on all social media platforms. Visit the White Label American website for links, donations, episodes, feedback, guests, merch, and newsletter. Don't forget to download the free White Label American app on the Google Play Store and Apple coming soon. Thank you for the privilege of your company.