Ep 155: ”The Duality of Childhood: Spirituality and Inclusive Beliefs in a Restrictive Society” ft Uche Chukwu

Raphael Harry [00:00:00]:

Welcome to White Label american Podcast. This is a podcast that brings you bold, in depth interviews with interesting people that are mostly immigrants taking down artificial walls one story at a time. This is a podcast that empowers immigrants to share their stories and listen to those of others. Thank you for joining us.

Uche Chukwu [00:00:24]:

Thank You.

Raphael Harry [00:00:38]:

Welcome. To another episode of White Label American. Thank you all for joining us today. I'm your host, Raphael Harry, and I'm honored to have an awesome brother who's a life coach, a YouTuber, a podcaster, a public speaker, philosopher, an army veteran. We don't always have army veterans here. We've had Air Force. We've had Navy veterans like myself, but it's good to always have an Army veteran in the house. I think we've had Marines, the Marines a little bit. We need Space Force to show up one day, but, you know, they still have a few years to get veteran status, but, you know, so it's good to have the awesome brother who's also in the content creating space, and his name is Uche Chukwu. And I got introduced to this Brad not too long ago, and I was like, this man is yeah, it just stood out to me. And I said, this guy, I have to get him on the podcast because what he's doing is this podcast, White Label American, exists to bring the artificial walls using stories from mostly immigrants. And Uche is bringing artificial walls through networking and conversing with black people all around the world. And even though he tackles mostly a lot of topics in the LGBTQ + plus space, it is just refreshing seeing somebody from my background, close to my tribal background, doing this work, and it's work that many people shy away from. So it's a huge honor to have you on the show. Welcome to the show, my brother. How are you doing today?

Uche Chukwu [00:02:19]:

Thank you so much, Rafael. I really do appreciate it. I am doing great. It's a beautiful Sunday afternoon in Texas. Thank you. I'm doing great.

Raphael Harry [00:02:27]:

All right, so let's dive to the very beginning, my brother.

Uche Chukwu [00:02:30]:

Sure.

Raphael Harry [00:02:32]:

What is the meaning of your names, and is there a story behind you coming to bear those names?

Uche Chukwu [00:02:38]:

So my legal names are Benjamin as my legal first name, my middle name is Uche Chukwu, and my last name is Nwakanma. So from what I understand, Benjamin is named after my grandfather, my father's father, who passed away when my father was still a kid. And this is something that my grandma, his mother, told me. So I didn't really have the opportunity to talk to my dad about it. That was a one-time conversation. So I guess my father sort of, like, made a promise that when he had a son, his first son would be Benjamin in remembrance of his father, his late father. So that's where I got my legal person in Benjamin. So some people know me as Benjamin, and some people know me as Uche or Muche Chukwu. And if you know anything about Nigerian families, a lot of times the parents would give their children more traditional names and also a more Western ladderable name, if that makes sense. Yes. Benjamin is not an English name. It's more Hebrew, but it's more so like a name that is more internationally understandable. So Uche Chukwu means the will of God or the thought of God. And then Wakama means it's sort of like a run-on statement. So child is better than this. Nwakama literally means the child is better, but in the context that you talk about is like, child is better than wealth, child is better than title, child is better than that. So in everything you do, your child is more precious than anything else. That's the meaning of Nwakama.

Raphael Harry [00:04:08]:

Wow. It's beautiful. I love that name.

Uche Chukwu [00:04:13]:

Thank you.

Raphael Harry [00:04:15]:

I didn't have a crush on somebody who I'm trying to I know her name started, but I had more crushes on Ebo girls than any other people I tried in Nigeria. So don't mind me for zoning out a little bit. I always have happy memories going that route. But, yeah, that's me. I love my women. My women love me. But staying on track. You named after your grandfather, and I've had a previous guest on the show who talked about reincarnation. And I know amongst Nigerian tribes, Ebols are very reincarnation is big amongst Ebols. They are the people who take that more seriously than most. So do you think being named Benjamin had something to do with reincarnation? Although I believe it would have been an Ebol name. Right?

Uche Chukwu [00:05:08]:

Yeah. I'm guessing that's doctor damages. I think he mentioned that. Perhaps not. I don't know my grandfather. I don't know a whole lot of my father's family. Unfortunately, because of how I was raised, I didn't really get a lot of personal interaction with my father and his family. Okay. So there is a possibility. I am very spiritual. I'm a very spiritual person, which is basically the foundation on everything I talk about on my YouTube, my coaching practice. I do believe in incarnation and reincarnation. Both are not the same. And I've talked about this on my YouTube a couple of times. So incarnation is part of the being process. So being itself is a never ending process, and to be human is part of that. So there's levels of being so human. The reality of human, which is a phenomenon of being human, is part of that being process. So you incarnate as a human being. But to reincarnate is not a good that you failed to do something that you were meant to do here. So whatever it is that your soul needed to absorb in order for you to graduate onto the next level of being, you didn't do it. So you have to come back here. You have to keep doing it until you get it right. So it could be a one time reincarnation or a billion trillion time reincarnation. So possibly that I am someone from my lineage reincarnation, maybe. Does that make sense?

Raphael Harry [00:06:40]:

It does. I'm just not used to reincarnation and incarnation. I think I tend to mix both of them up together. So I appreciate you making that distinction. And I was just like, yeah, I think I'm one of those who've made that mistake before, but now it makes a lot of sense to me. It does make a lot of sense to me. So with that being said, can you introduce us to your place of birth and what your childhood was like?

Uche Chukwu [00:07:14]:

Yes. I was born in a city called Aba in the southeastern part of Nigeria. And my tribe is Igbo, I was born in Aba, and when I was like four or five months old, my mother moved to America to live with my father. So I grew up partly, partially with my grandparents, my mother's family, until when I was about ten years old, my dad moved back to Nigeria with my sisters who were born in America. So they moved to America. I started family in America in Los Angeles, while I grew up with my grandparents. And of course, as a kid, I didn't really understand the immigration process, like, how come I'm not there with them, how come they're not coming to visit me, and things like that. But of course, now I do understand that it wasn't really something they were necessarily choosing, per se. And also it was more convenient for me to stay with my grandma away from all the things that they were dealing with in Los Angeles, and I'm going to be breaking that down episodes. So I grew up with my grandma until the age of ten. My dad came back and I drove my siblings, my sisters, and then from the age of ten to 15, I lived with my father, partially also going to boarding school as well. So basically the first 15 years of my life happened in Nigeria. Ten years with my grandma and five.

Raphael Harry [00:08:43]:

Years with my dad and with your grandma. Was that in Aba?

Uche Chukwu [00:08:48]:

Yes, in Aba. In Abu Hill? Yes.

Raphael Harry [00:08:50]:

Okay. All right. I've been to Aba a few times, drove from Potaco, but what's that big market called again? Aria Market. Yeah. I used to drive my aunts from Potaco. They couldn't drive, so that's our guests on pocket change and then drive them from Potaco. It's just a straight road. Straight road to Abba. So easy change, but fun times. So with that being said, what do you consider your favorite childhood memory to be?

Uche Chukwu [00:09:33]:

That's a really good question. I don't think I've ever thought of it. I have so many snapshots of happy moments in my childhood that I can't really pinpoint which one is my favorite. But there's one particular memory I put this in my book, is why I'm writing a book. I wouldn't necessarily call it a favorite childhood memory, but I'd say this is probably the childhood memory that stands out the absolute most. I was about four to five years old, and I was in the kitchen with my grandma. I remember this day like it was yesterday. But then I remember a whole lot of my childhood, even when I was like one or two, like it was yesterday. I know it sounds weird.

Raphael Harry [00:10:20]:

Trust me, it doesn't.

Uche Chukwu [00:10:24]:

I remember my grandma, she was cooking in the kitchen, and she wanted me to help her out. She was sending me errands into the house. We had, like, this detached kitchen. I don't know, you're probably familiar with detached kitchen back in the rural places. She had me go get salt, go get this. And as I was going back and forth, something hit me. Something so deep hit me. I don't know how to explain it. It basically said to me, you will have a very rough life. It's going to be very tough. And I remember I spoke right back to it. Not verbally, it's a really strange thing. I spoke right to it. And I said, as long as I win in the end, that's okay. And there was no fear to it, nothing to it. I just remember exactly where it was. They hit me, you will have a very abrupt but difficult life. And I responded, as long as I win in the end, that's okay. So that will be probably the memory that stands out the most as a child.

Raphael Harry [00:11:28]:

Wow.

Uche Chukwu [00:11:29]:

About four or five.

Raphael Harry [00:11:31]:

Wow. See, that's why I love asking that question, because you never know where it will take you. And I love the answers that come out people is like, that's a great question, but I don't know where have so many memories. I'm like, Just tell me your heart will answer the things that you learn. Sometimes words can't even quantify it. I'm glad that you shared that and that's always stayed with you. And I'm glad that you mentioned that you're writing a book, because that would have been one of my questions. Someone like you, you most definitely have to be writing a book, because I've also been told to write a book too. So I guess that's motivation for me. I'm telling myself, Write the book. I've written one chapter. Big walla. So do you recall what younger Uche wanted to be when he grew up?

Uche Chukwu [00:12:38]:

Yeah. So younger Uche had two parts. That's also going to be my book. Something interesting happened to me between my birth and the age of ten, and then something totally different happened between ten and 15. So when I think about my childhood, I think about my childhood in the single digits and in my early teenage years, which those were two different Uches. They're still the foundation of the same Uche that you see today. But if you knew me in those two times of my childhood, you wouldn't know that there's something happening those two times. This is one thing that has helped mowed my sense of spirituality, because now I understand exactly what was happening between those two versions of my life. So the younger uche, the single digits uche, I felt invincible. I have memories of thinking that I was the hottest thing ever. Of course, not in a sexy way, of course, but there is something I felt this deep sense of power that course through my being. I didn't know how to explain it, but I know that if I had grown up with it, it could have burned me to death. Hence why I appreciate between the ten and 15 years old, what happened to humble me, cool me down. And now I feel like I'm sort of like in the goal zone now as we check. But yeah, I felt invincible. As that single digit. Now, between the age of ten and 15, something totally different happened. I felt humbled. I had extreme depression, crippling depression. I believed I was bottom of the barrel. I believed I was not deserving of life. I used to, believe it or not, every single night as a ritual, I used to pray to not wake up every single night, never miss the night, because I hit crippling depression. So there's a huge contradiction or contracts from the first and the second.

Raphael Harry [00:14:41]:

Wow. When you said invincible, I had a smile there, because for those who are not able to watch, which is why she joined Patreon, so they can watch the video. When I was between seven and ten, I think that was the period where I felt most invincible. And I was living in Benin City then, and we played a lot of with toy guns. A lot of toy guns then, and war games, police and teeth and all that kind of stuff. I don't know where the yeah, I think it was feeling invincible, too, because yeah, we jumped over seven story buildings. There were some seven story buildings, but we're just running. Chase the bad guy. Yeah, jump over. I won't think about it. But they were really close to each other and the rooftop, but there was no protection. And you just papao jumped over because the first kid did it. And I was like, oh, I'm scared. But every other kid seemed to be going, all right, okay, I'll do it, too. And you just proud jumped. No. Thinking about it, like, what will happen if you missed? You dropped. There was no second thought to that. We jumped off bungalow. Part of the police and thief were doing, and one of the older kids, I think it was like two or three or four years, unfortunately, he just passed away. Yeah, it was about four years older than we were. He jumped and broke his foot. So I remember that happening, and I was like, man, what the hell is his leg break? How your leg break? Every other smaller kids jumping and just taking off running. And the older kids, I was like, he's not strong. Wow. So I think when he used to bully down, when he would try to bully us, that would make me not that would be stand up to because I saw your leg break, he jumped off. I didn't understand that. Yeah, the luck was on my side. It just never happened to me. So the older I would get is like, come jump off the tree. You know what? Get me a ladder. Get me ladder. My mind went to those places. And I don't think I've talked about this on the podcast before, but I did deal with some depressive thoughts too, as a teenager, due to how I was, the upbringing, the church. And that's another reason why I mentioned that documentary, the Happy Shiny People documentary that I recommended to you before I started recording. Those type of teachings were part of what I grew up with. So there's an internal battle going on. I remember nights when I was between 14 and 16, there were nights I went to bed with a knife. And I was holding a knife. And, you know, and for listeners yes. It gets a little bit dark and I'm just warning and I'll hold that knife and I'm like, I wish I made it. I could make it sharper. And I would play with it around my stomach like, oh, this knife is not sharp enough. So that's why I could poke my stomach wondering what would happen. Nobody care if anything happened. That kind of thought. And later on, my living situation will change. I have to go stay with a different family member. And then it's like the cycle will repeat itself again. But this time I'm not thinking towards taking my life thoughts, but it's just like I'm down. Like, yeah, the the world sucks, that kind of thing. But that but it was a depressive state. But you you don't have that. I didn't have that language of depression. Years, decades later, you can look back and like, man, that was depression. And you knew other kids who were facing some stuff and that's why previous guest on the podcast, episode 61 joshua Dehan. He's a musician based in Sweden. Now, he said a whole lot of Nigerians are just walking around. We all need therapy. There's literally almost everybody in that country needs therapy. Because if people really open up about what the experience is, what we have internalized in us, there's a lot of things that we just hold on to. But we need therapy. Everybody needs therapy, literally in that country. You just brought that to my mind. And I remember going through that and I still don't recall how I even went past that phase. But it was until I moved to two or three other relatives houses and I started being able to go out on my own. And I think that's how it just phased out. And I just thought life was good until another thing hits me and then I'll be like, Back to square one. Again, I relate to that. Sticking with your childhood, do you recall the first time you ever gave a public speech as a child? Because you do that now, and I don't believe that it was until you became an adult you started giving public speeches.

Uche Chukwu [00:20:00]:

So again, going back to the first phase in my childhood, the single digits. Yes. I was never afraid to speak in public. I was never afraid to speak in literally afraid of anyone. Actually. I still have memories of my grandma making fun of me for how bold I was. You know, how certain kids will say certain things with so much audacity? Who is talking? It's funny. The adults in the room laugh because what kind of kid is this? Talking all the nonsense? Especially with it's something that an adult would say. But the kid is coming from a kid with so much seriousness, it's comical for the adult. Does that make sense?

Raphael Harry [00:20:42]:

Yes.

Uche Chukwu [00:20:42]:

So I remember memories of my grandma would make fun of me and that would just pick me up like, Dude, I'm actually serious here. Yes, I remember being bold speaking in front of uncles, aunties, friends, family friends, anyone that would show up. I just didn't care. Again, I thought it was my world. I felt like it was all about me type of situation. So, yes, now, after the second phase of my childhood, a whole lot of things happened crippling. And it wasn't until after I moved to America in college when I started having little projects here and there that would require speaking in public. And of course, that trying to find that little uche. Back then, it was sort of like a reintroduction to myself. I would hyperventilate just like everybody else. But I noticed in traveling, one of the things I generally do appreciate about traveling, ever since I've been traveling, is that I would do something. It's sort of like a form of therapy for me. I would travel to places where people don't know me and I would be uche, 100% be uche. And I'd see how people react to that uche. So every time when I'd be coming back home on my plane, on the plane back home, I would do sort of like, okay, well, this is what they liked, this is what they didn't like. So it's sort of like a practice, a therapy session for me to kind of reconnect with myself. And I started seeing that, yes, there's a trend. People actually like my energy. Maybe not so much of this, maybe not so much of that. There's so many things that I could work on. But the coreness of uche is there. And there's something that is very attractive to people. People like the way I'm able to discern things, the way I'm able to decipher things, the way I'm able to speak. They like my energy. I get a lot of compliments on my voice all the time.

Raphael Harry [00:22:39]:

Radio voice.

Uche Chukwu [00:22:39]:

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. I still don't hear it, but I appreciate it.

Raphael Harry [00:22:44]:

I forgot to mention that in the intro. But you do have a radio voice, trust me. The type of voices that we grow up on, listening on the radio, like, man, this guy listen to his program. You got that type of voice.

Uche Chukwu [00:22:56]:

I appreciate it. Thanks. So with that, there's always the confidence to do perform a little bit more. It became more serious for me, and of course, the more healing I did, the more it became too obvious that I feel like there's something about I was feeling something inside of me that I ought to do something. To whom much is given, much is expected. So it's not about me anymore. So I went through a whole phase where I was running away from what I ought to do, if that makes sense, because I knew deep within my consciousness or subconscious that I had to do something, but I was run away from it. Maybe because I was making excuses, being lazy and things like that. But I noticed I was having what I call the Jonah effect. If you're a Christian, you probably know that God instructed Jonah to go to Neve to do something to minister to the people. And Jonah decided not to, so he got swallowed by a fish. Now, my interpretation of that is not the literal fish is more so the discomfort that you feel when you don't do what you ought to do. So I was going through a lot of discomfort until it became very obvious to me that, okay, I ought to do what I ought to do. So that's when I started being a lot more intentional in speaking, taking charge, starting a podcast, YouTube, going back to school to study philosophy and so on and so forth.

Raphael Harry [00:24:25]:

All right, so in that answer, you jumped ahead a little bit, but that's fine because it all tied in beautifully. So that worked. Now, let me see. Okay, yes. So we're going to jump forward to coming to America. We'll still fall back into Nigeria. Need be like, you can pull from Nigeria. I know they're still going to pull from Nigeria for your answer. So I don't need to tell you about that. I don't know what I'm doing. But anyway, so when did you have to make the move to America? And was there a particular reason for that?

Uche Chukwu [00:25:11]:

My parents got married. I was born in 1992. So the plan was after my mom, she got her papers to move to America. The plan was after they got settled in America, one of them would file for me to come to America. Eventually they got their papers, but they didn't file for me right away because they had all kinds of marital issues in La. At the time. So I was protected as a kid, I would say. So it didn't make sense to disrupt this kid's protection. He would inevitably come to America, but right now, let him be away from the malarkey that we're dealing with in Los Angeles. So eventually, when my dad had moved to Nigeria with my sisters and we lived together, there's a lot of nuances to the story.

Raphael Harry [00:25:55]:

Yeah. Okay. With for now, it's fine.

Uche Chukwu [00:26:00]:

Yeah. So eventually, my mother, of course, she was not happy with my sisters living in Nigeria because of the way my dad took them forcefully to Nigeria. So she wanted an opportunity. She was looking for an opportunity to bring them back to America, and also including me as well. So she filed for me when I was about 14 and a half years old. And then eventually, I got my papers, and I went to America at 15.

Raphael Harry [00:26:29]:

Okay, so it took about a year for your papers to go through?

Uche Chukwu [00:26:34]:

A bit longer than that. It's very long. So when my mom filed for me in 2006, early 2006, I believe, one of my sisters passed away. So she was in Chicago at the time. And I feel like my sister's death rocked her world a lot. It hurts so much. Understandably. So that was her favorite child, actually. And because of a lot of things that she was dealing with, my father back and forth, my father being in Nigeria, we're all in Nigeria here. She kind of let go of us again. There's a lot more to it, but she let go of us. And my papers came. It was time for me to go to interview, and she was not complying. So everything took much longer than it should have. But eventually, because my sister's death, the embassy in Nigeria, they were familiar with my family's case because she had reported my sister's death as something that was intentional by my father. So the embassy knew our case. So they knew that I am legit a child of an American citizen. So a lot of the things that I needed for my interview, they were eventually waived. So eventually I got my visa without her being in the picture. So thankfully, she's already done the paperwork and put everything okay.

Raphael Harry [00:28:02]:

Well, first of all, condolences on the loss of your sister. And I always ask about how people ended up here, because I tried to remove that narrative of, like, it's just like, oh, you apply for visa, and it's just one stamp, because everybody's case is different. Like, mine took a couple of years. I got rejected about three times, even though my mom had been in America, had a green card since the 70s. So my elder brother was born here. And, yeah, there were just some technicalities that kept being it wasn't, like, my fault, but it was just like, my mom sided. If you had applied before this month, you would have gotten the visa. I'm like, Lee, then come back again, and then again. And then the third time they're like, well, now we need a DNA to prove it's your mom. You could have told me that for the first how many years back, other people have tried to let people know, the audience know that it's not the same. Because now you have some people out there trying to be, like anti immigrants and all this, even though we know the history of this country and it removes that artificial wall of everybody just needs to go to the embassy, apply for visa, and you just get your visa. If you do everything right, you can do everything right all you want, and you can't control certain things. So that's why I always ask that question, to get the details of how someone ended up here. And my very first guest was somebody who was whose parents smuggled her through the border. They were 1616 year old parents. So imagine that. So, yeah, I'll never forget that. And there's no undocumented on this podcast. So we shall take a quick break, and when we'll come back, we shall dive into America. Hi, everyone. If you're new to the podcast or a returning listener and you enjoy what we are doing here, did you know that you could enjoy more of our content and also support our work via Patreon? For as little as $3 per month, you get access to loads of bonus content that you'll find nowhere and be the first to latest news. Don't miss out. Go to Patreon.com White Labelamericanpod or just search for White Labelamerican podcast on Patreon. P-A-T-R-E-O-N. Welcome back and thank you for staying with us. So one question I always like to ask everyone who migrated here to America is, what airline did you take on your flight coming to America? Do you remember that airline?

Uche Chukwu [00:30:54]:

Yes. And it was discontinued. I think it's called North American Airlines. From Los Angeles? No. Lagos, Nigeria, to JFK. It doesn't fly anymore.

Raphael Harry [00:31:04]:

You're the first person I'm probably the only person I've got on the podcast.

Uche Chukwu [00:31:10]:

You remember the airline?

Raphael Harry [00:31:11]:

No, I never touched the airline. KLM is the winning airline on this podcast. KLM. I'm trying to get somebody from KLM come sponsor us because they've brought a lot of guests on this podcast to America. So I'm like, yes, you guys owe us money. Just bring it to the podcast. We accept KLM money. That's why I asked that question all the time. Like, let me see. I'm not if I can get another KLM person, so but what was the first by then? You flew to go stay with your mom, right?

Uche Chukwu [00:31:49]:

No. Yeah, it was a mess. My parents are a hot mess. So because she had food away and my dad still had resentment for her, he made me go to California to stay with his friend, one of his family friends. And he had. Like a whole what's that thing? Is it affidavit or something like that when you give ownership of your child to someone else?

Raphael Harry [00:32:18]:

Legal custody, right?

Uche Chukwu [00:32:20]:

Yeah, legal custody, yes. So he gave his friend legal custody in California. So I didn't go to Chicago.

Raphael Harry [00:32:27]:

I have never it's the first time I've had that. You can do something like that for a kid. I'm learning stuff every day, so wow. I shouldn't be too surprised. Wow. But, man, when the grandparents are fighting, I wish they remember that the kids shouldn't be the ones to suffer. It's complicated, but wow. So what city in California did you end up in?

Uche Chukwu [00:32:56]:

They lived in San Bernardino County. San Bernardino County in the city of Adelanto. So I went to the high school called Victorville. Victor valley high school in victorville, california, in san bernardino?

Raphael Harry [00:33:13]:

Yeah. I struggle with that name too. It's not you alone. My brother bernardino So what was your first son Bernardino moment like? You know, this is wow, I'm no longer in Aba. I'm no longer in Nigeria. This is an American moment. Like, wow, what is going on? Okay, I'm no longer around Nigeria. What was that first moment for you after arriving?

Uche Chukwu [00:33:41]:

It was a lot meeting the guy that I lived with for the first time, I had already met him in Nigeria one time. So seeing him in America, oh, my God, this is happening. So that was definitely a moment. Interacting with his kids. He had a son who was like two years younger than me, and a daughter was like, five or six years younger than me. And then he had, like, a baby. So living in a household with Americans, and also his wife was also Nigerian American. I think she came to America when she was much younger. So living in a household in America filled with Americans is also another moment. I remember seeing my first snow. That was also another moment. I remember one time in the summer, it was hot, very hot. Much hotter than it was in Abba. I was like, Are you sure I'm in America?

Raphael Harry [00:34:31]:

That's my first oh, man, America.

Uche Chukwu [00:34:35]:

And also the contract of extreme code of snow, extreme heat, extreme blew my mind. And also, I think another moment is when my demons of depression caught up with me eventually. And I was dealing with crippling depression and also battling not, quote, unquote, embarrassing myself in front of this man who doesn't really know me. But I was dealing with extreme depression. And they confused it as, oh, he's so weird. But it was a lot.

Raphael Harry [00:35:09]:

Wow. Did you feel like if you had the language of this is what you were going through and you opened up, then do you think they would have been welcoming to you, or would they have known what to do?

Uche Chukwu [00:35:27]:

No, we actually did. So I disconnected after several months, maybe like six, seven months, I disconnected from them. It was too obvious that there's something going on with this kid. So again, this was me between those ten and 15 years back in Nigeria. And they saw that. And I remember one time we were driving home from church, the family was in the car, and I was all the way in the back. And the man, he saw me through the rear view mirror, was asking in our native language, why is your face like that? And I boldly told him, because I'm depressed. And I cannot forget his response. It was so typical. He was angry, yelling at me, what do you mean you're depressed? What do you mean? Do you know how many people in Nigeria will kill to be your position? You came all the way from Nigeria. You're not even ashamed to open your mouth and say that you are depressed. In fact, I should tell your father so I can send you back to Nigeria. Go and be depressed in Nigeria. He's a doctor, by the way. Public health. PH Behoter.

Raphael Harry [00:36:36]:

I can't say I'm surprised by that response because I've had that type of response a couple of times, and I wasn't even a kid hearing that type of response. I'm an adult. I'm still hearing that response. Like, what are people they're saying, depression, mental health, they are living in America. Why would you have this problem? This is what happens when you hang around Americans and then you start copying them. Lack of knowledge. Is it just ignorant, just choosing to be ignorant.

Uche Chukwu [00:37:15]:

And it's important that I mentioned that this person is a PhD holder in public health.

Raphael Harry [00:37:21]:

Public health, I imagine. So was it from high school that you went to the military, or did you go college first?

Uche Chukwu [00:37:33]:

No. So I started college. I joined the military when I was 21. Yes, in 2013.

Raphael Harry [00:37:43]:

So what did you decide to go to college for and why did you join the military?

Uche Chukwu [00:37:51]:

My brother nah condition. I didn't join the military because I was happy. I had a very terrible encounter with my mother when I was the very first time I met her at nine years old. I actually talked about it in a very recent episode. It's going to be aired on Saturday coming up, so please make sure to subscribe and watch it now.

Raphael Harry [00:38:18]:

Please do.

Uche Chukwu [00:38:19]:

But I had a very ugly encounter with her the very first time I met her at nine years old. And that was what started the spin of that single digit Uche to the other Uche as a child. And that broke my spirit. She told me how she didn't want me, she considered aborting me, and I was a cause of a miserable life and things like that. So eventually, when I moved to America at 15, of course I was away from her, living in San Bernardino with my father's friend at 15, and then graduating high school at 17 and then becoming an adult. I decided to reach out because at the end of the day, she was my mother no matter what. But that relationship was more so me, unfortunately, desperately trying to have her see me. See me. I am worthy. I am worthy of being loved. I am your child. And I tried. I tried so many years, so many times between the age of, I guess, 18 to 21, I'd fly down from California to Chicago was very uncomfortable because my mother is just a very different person. I'm not trying to paint her negatively here. I try to be as neutral as possible. But she was someone to be tolerated, if that makes any sense. And in 2013, I hit rock bottom. It dawned on me that no matter what, this woman would never love me because she is incapable of loving until she rectifies what's within her. So I had already given up on everything. I lost my job. I had finished my associate's degree. I went through homelessness in California. I hit rock bottom like I was going through it. So in 2018, I dropped off from college as well. In 2013, it was either sell drugs, sell my body, or join the military or living in a homeless shelter or something like that. That's when I decided to enlist in the US. Army in October 2013 in Briar, California. Wow.

Raphael Harry [00:40:32]:

Yeah. There's a lot of things, man, that I relate to. I don't have the best relationships. My mom, we still text. Then she calls to talk to my kid. It's more of my kids that she's talking to the grandkid. But I understand certain things. I was private of some information that normally you don't get to see those type of information as a kid. But I'm glad I got the information, because I can see when the changes happened within her, she wasn't a happy person. And it's like, with time, the frustration came out on the kids, especially me. And it's like when you try to bring those type of conversations up, especially in our communities, people like, Where's your mom? You can't have this type of they can't do no wrong. And I'm like, they can do wrong when they are not happy, when they were forced to make decisions. That leads to them having internal demons that were never dealt with. And it creates a ripple of emotions, and it destroys relationships that shouldn't have been destroyed. And we just try to push it on that community. We shall be one, and everything's good. And I'm like, no. I've told her every time I tell her, she just has to pick. Sometimes we just have to fight. And I'm like, no, I'm not going to fight you. I know what's coming. I can see it from a mile away. And that's fine. If this is what pumps your juices, that's fine. But all you get from me is a thumbs up text. That's it. And I'm laughing. I'm just like, I know you can't say anything you want to say it's bouncing off and tomorrow you're going to call me. I'm like, hey, so all the things you said never happened, and I know someone who I've told that and I would have cut off and all this. I'm like, yeah, you would have. I don't know if you would, really? But that's up to you. So I get it, my brother, I get it. Our relationships, our parents are complicated. I never knew my dad, and it was my mom also played a role in that, too. But I understand certain things that she did from her point of view. But I just wish she can tell me and be like, okay, I'm not hitting you. Because I wish if I was under that type of pressure, because at the end of the day, she's a black woman, she's in Nigeria. The pressure is like, crazy. And some of them are forced to take drastic decisions that are not good for them doesn't mean it's good for them. I wish they will understand that. And it's not coming from a place of hate. It's not coming from we the children. We've grown to recognize certain things. So it's okay for us to put this out there because there are many people dealing with a whole lot of this and just falling back on that. Oh, because it's my mom or it's my dad, I just have to accept everything. Like, no, you can draw, set boundaries, and you can still move on from there. But anyway, we have to come back to the professional. I've just had to throw my $0.02 in there. So you joined the army. What did you do in the army?

Uche Chukwu [00:44:04]:

I was an 88 Mike truck driver.

Raphael Harry [00:44:08]:

This guy. Are you copying my life? Calm down, man. Calm down. Sure, I was supplied. That was the first thing I did in the Navy, was delivery of supplies. Then I moved on to financials, but from truck driving, drove the van, drove forklifts, I did deliveries and then started being supervisor and all those things. But I'm like, man, this guy. What's the next thing you're going to say? You started the podcast too.

Uche Chukwu [00:44:42]:

Please.

Raphael Harry [00:44:47]:

So you did the army? Were you never tempted to pursue a career in the army? Because when I told people I was leaving the Navy to go follow my path, people are like, oh, you should stay. The economy is rough out there, and all this and all that, that was like a lot of things people said to me. So did you get that type of words of advice? And I'm saying that in quotes for you to stay in the army and not follow your path.

Uche Chukwu [00:45:23]:

My transition into Duran and outside of the army, so many times I joined the military because I hit rock bottom, completely hit rock bottom. The first people I was going to sign up with was the Navy. And I remember they were paying me dust. I remember they were paying me dust because I was so desperate, I just didn't care who to join. I remember that day in the office, they were paying me dust, and I was literally walking out, and then the army recruiter saw me walking out like, hey, come let me sign you up.

Raphael Harry [00:45:57]:

They know. They know those guys.

Uche Chukwu [00:46:01]:

Well, it would have been the Navy, but they were just acting like, who is this guy.

Raphael Harry [00:46:08]:

After the Air Force? Is Navy?

Uche Chukwu [00:46:10]:

Yeah, should have been the Air Force, but we sound good, but either way. So I joined the military because I was desperate. I didn't even know anything about the military uniform. I didn't even know what it looked like. I knew the Navy uniform because I had met someone from the Navy. But outside of that, I had no idea. I didn't even know you got paid. I didn't know any there is some type of education benefits or whatsoever. I had just given up on everything. That's why I joined. So the point I joined the military was to, you know what, screw it. I'm going to just do this. And whatever happens is better than being in a homeless shelter. And then when I got there, I realized, oh, I'm getting paid. Oh, I can actually go to school for free, this and that. So I started like, okay. So I paid off my debt. I went back to school. I had been studying. I was premed prior to that, studying biology because I thought I wanted to be a doctor, just impress my parents.

Raphael Harry [00:47:07]:

Good immigrant kid. Good immigrant kid, right? This boy is going somewhere.

Uche Chukwu [00:47:14]:

But I had to wake up from that slumber, I'm not a doctor material. I have no interest respect to all the doctors out there. But it's not but I already started schooling as free med, so I was able to transfer my degree, my classes into finishing my undergrad in health sciences because I wanted to continue in healthcare. So healthcare became my passion then, at least, so I thought. And the plan was like, you know what? Let me just do the military stuff and continue until I'm done with school and then maybe go out into the civilian world and work in healthcare, right? And then as I was in the military, I was like, you know what? Maybe I could actually do a career here. Combined healthcare and the military. And that's when I got hurt. I had an accident. And then it was like, you know what? I guess it's not meant for me to continue in military anyway. So I was like, okay, I'm going to just leave and continue with health care. Does that make sense?

Raphael Harry [00:48:15]:

Yes.

Uche Chukwu [00:48:16]:

So if I hadn't gotten to my issues in military, perhaps I would have continued because I saw an opportunity to reenlist and get paid doing what I studied while being protected by the military.

Raphael Harry [00:48:35]:

It sounds like the military kind of helped put you on your part, and it helped stabilize a lot of things around you, right?

Uche Chukwu [00:48:46]:

Yes.

Raphael Harry [00:48:47]:

Okay. I did it does that for, like even when I joined the Navy, I'm not going to lie, I didn't know anything, man. I didn't know where to go. My cousin just called me and said, distant cousin served in the Navy. He didn't give me any information other than just tell him you want to do supply. I don't want to supply. You carry boxes. I said, that's it. Yeah, okay, I can carry boxes. What do you want to do supply. But there's not a job like it or that's it supply. Why are you joining? And you're like, oh, wait, I could become a citizen. What? No, I did not know. I can go to school. What? And I'm like, I got left all those informations out.

Uche Chukwu [00:49:38]:

This is why I will always and this is just something that's personal to me. I will always not just about America, but specifically the US military. I will always have mad respect for the US military, even if you serve in one day. Whenever I see anyone in uniform, I always say thank you because you were the parent that I needed most of all.

Raphael Harry [00:49:59]:

That was our first real family that we got. I'm still close to my volunteer with my veterans in the community, and I've helped a bunch of people. Even my villain in the podcasting streets, I still helped him join the military. But a bunch of like there was random back on old Facebook days where someone could just message you. Random person. A dude messaged me. He was living in Texas and I was stationed in Virginia. And he said he saw my post, my profile picture, then had me in uniform, but I left a post somewhere in pigeon English. And he's like, oh, I see it's. Like you're Nigerian. You have lived in Nigeria. I would like to join him navy, but I don't know anything. I just arrived in America. I have green card. I don't know anybody. How do I okay, give me a phone number. And we talked for an hour, found out what he liked, where you would like to go. I said, okay, I can give you three or four people doing this job. And you speak to them and they will tell you the likes and what you might like, what you might not like, what you need to look out for, that type of thing. And I started doing that for a lot of people, but being Nigerians or not Nigerians, but I got, like, open the doors for many people, that information I was never given from the beginning, where I had to start stumbling into blocks. After the two weeks before I even left the Navy, somebody was like, oh, do you have this certification Navy could have paid for? I'm like, why? Nobody told me this. You got told me this, like, three months you saw me all the time. Four months ago, I could have taken the exams. Two weeks to go, and then you're telling me so I make sure I'm intentional with that. I don't want you to go in blind and then start stumbling, hitting the walls. No gall information. If you decide to go in, fine. But, yeah, I give you a network to walk into. So do that for them. It's our first family, first real family. The first place that I saw, oh, I could lead. I could lead people. Wow. Okay. And I didn't realize, well, I had that leadership quality right from time, but it was there that they showed me. They allowed me mold it and allowed me to express myself the way I can do it now and a whole lot of things. So I'm always grateful for the Navy shout out, and we know our uniforms look better than other people's uniforms, too.

Uche Chukwu [00:52:18]:

That's true. I would admit that.

Raphael Harry [00:52:21]:

So you made a big pivot from the medical from medical research. You started a media career. Yeah, I call it a media career. I call it because there's a lot of things that you do in that space, but it's all media career related, and there's still some medical stuff in there because you still use information for your medical days, which is why you stand out, unlike other people in your field. But you're making that pivot. How did that come about, that you're returning back to the young Uche who could talk to in front of people, who could address people. How did you get to that space where you're like, I am confident enough to take this big leap. If anyone listening knows, most of the health community, the medical professional community based in America, the UK, you find Nigerians there. Saudi Arabia when I was teaching the Middle East. There were Nigerians. It's like crazy to say, I'm leaving the medical field to go look at you. Are you crazy? Did village boy come for you? What is wrong with you? So you taking this big leap of faith to go do your own thing, but how do you find that inspiration to start your own thing?

Uche Chukwu [00:53:51]:

First of all, I don't regret my health care journey at all. I do appreciate health care. I would do it all over again. It feels like it was meant to be. Everything that I've done have led me here 100%, and I have mad respect for all the doctors, nurses, everyone that did what I did and beyond. I really do. But going back to what I was talking about regarding the whole Jonah effect, as I practice in health care, I did okay. I did well. The money was not that great, but it was okay. But with each passing moment, month and year, it became too obvious to me that this is not where I belong. When you work in a hospital setting where you're dealing with patients, and every single day someone is telling you, you need a podcast, dude, you need a podcast. You need to be a teacher. You're going to be a professor. You need this every single day. I mean, come on.

Raphael Harry [00:54:51]:

That's the universe speaking to people, sighting.

Uche Chukwu [00:54:54]:

Yeah. Whether it's my voice or my ability to articulate things, break things down, whatever it is, I was like, okay, it's too obvious that I'm not just meant to be here in this cubicle, just type in computers. I've always had a very strong inclination for philosophy. And I met someone. I met someone. I would give him the respect and mention to him on this interview. I met someone in 2019 who eventually is now my ex. But I feel like his presence in my life definitely was a lot of things. He was very intelligent type of person. He loved me unconditionally. And seeing how he was see, the way I describe it is he was high. He was always high without any substance. And that was my first time seeing someone like that up and personal. He didn't try at all. He was just high, full of life. He didn't even make that much money. But he felt so alive. And I wanted whatever he had. On the surface, I was gucci. I had a nice house, had this, had that. But I wasn't as high as him. I wanted to smoke whatever he was smoking. And I came to see that what it is that is high about him is that he's very aligned in what he was doing. And he also studied his undergrad in, I think, biochemistry or something like that. He left that to pursue his own thing. He's a teacher. He's in policy making and things like that. Totally different from what he did. He could have been easily a doctor making six figures easily. But he left that to do whatever he was doing. And seeing how he was just exuding grace effortlessly, there's definitely some inspiration there. I wanted that. So I set into doing my own soul searching. What is Uche? Who is Uche? And I consulted a lot of that young Uche. And it dawned on me. I think I was in Nairobi, Kenya a few years ago, like three or four years ago, when it dawned on me. Philosophy. That's what I need. And then with the help of the people around me, I was able to put together a podcast. So the podcast was supposed to be like some type of therapy outlet for me to share my thoughts. And then the more I was doing it, the more people seemed very receptive. People supported me. The more serious, the more I was able to see, okay, there's definitely something here. And then it wasn't until last year, sometime last year, and I was like, you know what? I had already started studying philosophy. I loved every single thing about it. Then I took the big leap of faith to walk away permanently from health care to do my own thing. It was a very big decision, very scary, because, again, I don't know anyone. I know some Nigerians when I tell them that I left health care to do philosophy. The first question, especially the Ebola, the first question is, is there money there? Are you going to be making money here?

Raphael Harry [00:58:02]:

I know that conversation, my brother.

Uche Chukwu [00:58:06]:

I took the leap of faith to walk away from healthcare to pursue this because it feels right. And my days in healthcare are over as of right now. However, I do appreciate everything that has led me here. So here I am.

Raphael Harry [00:58:20]:

Yeah, I appreciate you that you're in this space, because we need voices like yours. It's very important to have a voice like you in this space. So you are based in Texas and in the city that are considered the headquarters of Nigeria in America. So how did that come about?

Uche Chukwu [00:58:44]:

So when I was leaving the military, I served in Oklahoma, by the way. That's when I discovered Texas for the first time. It was either go back to California where things are extremely expensive and dry and crowded, or leave the country. No, the East Coast gives me anxiety.

Raphael Harry [00:59:06]:

You have to try it first. You'd have loved it, trust me.

Uche Chukwu [00:59:11]:

There's something about the East Coast. Even looking at the map of the East Coast compared to the rest of the map, I don't know. Where is Newark? Where is Philadelphia? I have no idea. Everything just good. Anyway, I had no time to anything. I could move out of a country, but I was advised Texas. Houston, at the time sounded very attractive to me. There's a lot of Nigerians. I wanted to be with Nigerians because I don't have any strong ties to Nigeria, unfortunately. So I figured living in a city that had a lot of Nigerians will be some opportunity for me to rekindle that. Houston also has the biggest medical district in the world, the Texas Medical District.

Raphael Harry [00:59:58]:

Okay.

Uche Chukwu [00:59:58]:

So being in healthcare, that was also very attractive. Also real estate, a lot more space. Everything's bigger in Texas compared to California. So all of that was like, you know what? Let me give it a try. I have no ties to anything. If I don't like it, it's just me. I just pack with my stuff and move. So I lived in San Antonio for about a year, but I've been in Texas for about six years now, I believe. And it's home for now.

Raphael Harry [01:00:27]:

All right, Houston is home. I've had one of my former guests, one of my previous guests. I've forgotten her name. Why am I forgetting her name? I'm seeing her face right now. She's Cameroonian American, born in Houston, but grew up spent some years in Cameroon. Awesome woman. She's the founder of African American Marketing Association. So she's based in Houston. She's one of the people who wants me to come I've been to Houston only once, but I spent barely a few hours that day and drove back to Dallas area. That used to be my base, the way I stayed after I got off the Navy. So I was like, this place too big, man. I don't need all this space. You got too much space? No, I can do that. But no, I appreciate that area. I have some good people there, though. But way too many Nigerians for me. Way too many. I like us in trouble. Yeah, we find it.

Uche Chukwu [01:01:39]:

Good.

Raphael Harry [01:01:40]:

So I have to start wrapping it up. But before there's one question I have to ask before I jump into my strictly comedic questions, with your philosophy, you're big in philosophy, you're in the spiritual space too. But at the same time, a lot of things that you talk about, your work relates to the LGBTQ community plus community a lot. However, there's a lot of pushback against that same community today. From the religious communities, they act like in the Nigerian speak, it's like an abomination. That's the language that they will use. So how has it been for you, doing the work that you do, trying to show people that it shouldn't be this way? Has it been for you? Is there pushback against the work that you do?

Uche Chukwu [01:02:44]:

Yes, definitely. Obviously understandably so.

Raphael Harry [01:02:46]:

And how do you deal with the pushback?

Uche Chukwu [01:02:49]:

Yeah, I understand the pushback from a much deeper place. And this is why I always say, as Uche, one of the best things that's ever happened in my soul is being a black, African queer man. Because those three things have definitely helped me see things from a totally different perspective. So a lot of things that I go through, the pushbacks or people's reactions or negative reactions towards what I'm doing, I understand because I could have easily been them as well. So I'll try to break this down to a certain extent on my YouTube channel and my podcast. Please make sure to follow.

Raphael Harry [01:03:28]:

Oh, yeah, you're going to plug it in at the end. Don't worry, I'll give you time. I don't bring people on and say, don't plug yourself in, don't worry.

Uche Chukwu [01:03:36]:

So my latest episode that's going to be published on Saturday, I basically broke it down. There's this contradiction started with myself as I got older, started healing. I felt really good as a human being occupying space and time, which was definitely in contrast to what a lot of the society had told me. You shouldn't feel good about yourself, whether it's because you're a queer man, whether it's because you're black, you're African and things like that. There's always something you're not good enough for. Yet within me, I felt good. So that triggered me to start looking and thinking outside the box. Perhaps we don't understand what God is. So I started looking at the concept of God that is more inclusive. So because of that, I've been able to. Understand that. I feel like us as human beings, but especially coming from where we're coming from, we have created God in our own image without being humble enough to understand that God is much deeper and broader than we know. So from my deeply spiritual perspective sorry, from a deeply spiritual perspective, I understand the pushbacks, and I see that what the issue is is ignorance. So I cannot fight that ignorance with ignorance as well, because it just makes things worse, right? So I feel like the best way is to educate people in a healthy, effective way to bridge that gap by putting myself in a position I know what I think I know right now because of my affiliation with the LGBTQ community. And there's a lot of people, gay men, queer men, women, who are part of the LGBTQ community who don't necessarily have the lingo or even the guts to bridge that gap. Someone has to do it. So that person, I guess, as I was saying, someone has to do it. I kept seeing myself in the mirror, like, who else is going to do it? So that's bridging that gap from a place of love, because a lot of times when there is a pushback from the LGBTQ community, it's not really loving, which makes it worse for the people back on the other side. So I'm trying to bridge that gap from a deeply spiritual perspective by helping people redefine the idea of God that we've been indoctrinated into, because what we think we know is God for the lack of better words is actually the antichrist. But that's a whole nother conversation.

Raphael Harry [01:06:00]:

All right, full disclosure, I'm an atheist now. I used to be born Catholic, hardcore conservative Catholic, and then evangelical, and then I've been all the churches in Nigeria. But like I said, it's good to have you in this space because trust me, I talk to people and I hear some people, and I'm like, yeah, why do you have the mic, man? Why do you have the mic? We don't need people like you with the mic. So I always appreciate that's why some people find me weird because they're like, oh, we would think you bash all religions and all that. I'm like, yeah, if I had my way, I wouldn't have any religion existing. But that's not about me. But that doesn't mean people I want people to have voices like you that exist, because otherwise the voices that exist going to be like, all is just one picture they're painting. And it's like pushing people down. And then people start growing up thinking that you can't be happy if you find joy that is something is wrong with you. And then they start thinking, oh, something's wrong with me because I'm trying to express myself. But I'm like, that's why the first day I saw I got introduced to your page and I listened to a couple of your clips, I was like, yeah, I sent you to about ten people, and all of them were like, well, how you find this guy? How you find this guy? And one of them, she was visiting New York today, herself and her cousin. We're visiting New York today, but the cousin doesn't have social media, so she was just like, oh, thank you. I'm so glad. I wish I could have stayed here to see him. But yeah, it's just like that because your voices like yours are not we need more of that. The very first person from the LGBTQ community to be on this podcast is a trans Ebol woman born in Nigeria. And she's been through a lot. She's been through a lot, but she's very religious. And I was thinking, like, wow, I can't imagine being in your shoes. I can't, because I've pulled myself out of that life. But that doesn't mean if I see somebody who can help you, I'm going to be like, oh, because I don't go to church anymore, I'm going to keep that away from you. No, I send it to her. I send it to her. She's not on Instagram right now, but I'm just trying to confirm my number as soon as I, like, changing her numbers. So once I confirm her current number, I'm sending her your YouTube and everything. Like, follow this product, because it's something that people like how we appreciate you. There are people out there who've been looking for voices like yours. So that's why I was so glad to see it and say, yes, 100% might not be in there for me. I know everything might be for me, but I know people who need this. I don't need to hear your voice. So that's why I really appreciate you, my brother.

Uche Chukwu [01:09:01]:

Thank you. Real quick, do you mind if I ask you how you got to know about me?

Raphael Harry [01:09:11]:

I need to reach out to him too. Reverend JD McAuley. Yeah, I saw him make a post, and the IG algorithms can be crazy sometimes, so for a long time, I haven't seen his posts on Instagram. But that day, maybe I just had time on Instagram that day, and I was just sorry. Reverend JD. My colleague. It's not him. Who's this on his IGS. I was like, this person first of all, the voice got me, as usual.

Uche Chukwu [01:09:39]:

Okay.

Raphael Harry [01:09:40]:

I like this voice. And I was like, wow, this person was really confident ebo guy. And he said he's gay. Okay, let me just see where's the person's page. Let me go to his page first and make sure it's not some AI talking to me. Let me click and see. Okay, this might be legit here. Wow. Follow immediately. Okay. I watched, like, a couple of clips next, and I start sending it out. Start sending it out. Send it. First thing was to Uche, who's been on the podcast. He's an immigrant. He's a queer immigrant activist. He's now moved to atlanta. He used to be in New York here. And he wrote back, I was like, how you find this guy? I was like, hey, you know me, when I find something good, I send it to and he's also spiritual. So I was like, yeah, I think he's already following your page, too. I believe so. I think I saw his name on your page. So, yeah, I don't know how to keep good stuff to myself. Like I said, it's about win. You win, I win. So I want to see you succeeding. And yeah, someone reaches there are people send me messages in the back like, hey, bro, I saw you standing next to you took a photo, you were holding one guy. Is he not gay? What's your question exactly? So you hold homosexual, you hug him. What is your question exactly? When I hug all the women you see me hugging with, do you have problem? Do you know how many trans women I've taken photos with? So what do you feel like? Do you want to find out for yourself? You can come hang out with me. No, I need to do that kind of what exactly? Where is your mind going to? Just tell me. We can talk. So sometimes I send some of them, those type of clips too, and then some respond, like, notice how many discounts we just keep quiet. That's it. And I take that quietness as a sign that this person there's something going on. We understand. When you're ready to talk, we'll talk. But silent communication works, too. So, yeah. I really appreciate you, my brother.

Uche Chukwu [01:12:00]:

Thank you. Appreciate it. Likewise.

Raphael Harry [01:12:02]:

Yeah. So everybody who comes on this show, we consider you a dancer. If you claim you don't dance, we'll stop recording right now and kick you out of the studio. So now since you virtually you got some leverage there, but you can't claim you don't dance because we know you found your joy. You like joy. So, yeah, you might be a dancer. I can tell already. I can tell from here. So we need you to give us at least three songs that can keep you dancing for an hour. Now, there's a caveat. You can't go and be giving us the Beyonce. You can't give us the flavor. Even though flavor has been mentioned in this podcast, you can give us the most popular names. You have to give us some names that we have to dig in for. Like, okay, well, I will take flavor, though, if you give me flavor, because flavor hasn't been mentioned on this podcast, I will let down a slide. But you can't give us the most popular, most popular our names. If you got somebody from Oklahoma, maybe. I don't know what's happening in Oklahoma there, but we'll take Oklahoma. I try to make it difficult for the guests every now and then.

Uche Chukwu [01:13:08]:

So you want me to name a song or an artist?

Raphael Harry [01:13:11]:

Yeah, at least three artists that can keep you dancing for an hour.

Uche Chukwu [01:13:15]:

Okay. Shout out to my girl yami lady.

Raphael Harry [01:13:21]:

That's a popular name. Let me call and see. Do we accept that the INACC of the show said canceled?

Uche Chukwu [01:13:35]:

Let me see. Cancel. So no one popular.

Raphael Harry [01:13:49]:

You don't have to give us the most biggest names. You can use the technicality to throw a name in there. But.

Uche Chukwu [01:13:59]:

What gets me dancing, one of my favorite artists is black. I don't know. He's an American rapper. It's spelled with six instead of a B. So six black. Okay, so the B is six.

Raphael Harry [01:14:18]:

Okay.

Uche Chukwu [01:14:19]:

It's one of my favorite.

Raphael Harry [01:14:21]:

All right, that's new to me. That's how I build my playlist, too.

Uche Chukwu [01:14:31]:

By far one of my favorites, a rapper.

Raphael Harry [01:14:33]:

Okay.

Uche Chukwu [01:14:34]:

And then another one I like NF. He's also a rapper.

Raphael Harry [01:14:37]:

NF?

Uche Chukwu [01:14:39]:

N as in November, f as in Frank. Yeah, as a rapper, I like him a lot.

Raphael Harry [01:14:46]:

And nobody from Aba.

Uche Chukwu [01:14:52]:

Rough coin WABA. Yes.

Raphael Harry [01:14:56]:

I've had somebody from Aba writing to me and saying, is this guy really from Aba? What is this? He didn't mention anybody from Aba. I would have just said take his email. Grand complaint. What do you say his name is again? Rough boy.

Uche Chukwu [01:15:10]:

Rough coin Ruffcoin. Okay. And then while we're out there, there's another one, too. Okay, it's coming.

Raphael Harry [01:15:27]:

You see? That's what happens.

Uche Chukwu [01:15:33]:

Rugochi. U-G-O-C-C-I echochi.

Raphael Harry [01:15:45]:

All right. There you go. See, now my playlist is going to be swelling. That's how, I guess, artists will hear my playlist. Your playlist don't sound like all Nigerians playlist. I said, because I know people. I know guys. My guys hook me up. You all are my guys. All right, so you've traveled a lot. You've been around a few places. When it comes to your favorite cuisine, what do you consider your favorite cuisine to be right now?

Uche Chukwu [01:16:20]:

You're not going to like my answer.

Raphael Harry [01:16:24]:

If somebody's going to be writing, protesting right now, maybe the best is already writing. I don't know, but that's on you.

Uche Chukwu [01:16:33]:

Ever since I was a kid, and possibly till the day I die, swallow will always be my favorite food.

Raphael Harry [01:16:40]:

Which swallow?

Uche Chukwu [01:16:42]:

I'm not even that picky. I like ogo. I've come to understand this is specific to the ungua people in at the estate, we call it a football. So I noticed a lot of ebo people don't know what it is. When I talk about it.

Raphael Harry [01:17:01]:

I don't even know what it is.

Uche Chukwu [01:17:03]:

Are you ebo?

Raphael Harry [01:17:04]:

No, I'm EJA.

Uche Chukwu [01:17:06]:

So it's very common with ungua dialects of EBORO. I remember. That's actually one of my earliest memories ever. My favorite soup ever with okra, but let's go.

Raphael Harry [01:17:23]:

All right. This man is a swallow man. So you don't have any preference between pandadiam, fufu, Ebar or swallow? No discrimination.

Uche Chukwu [01:17:37]:

I used to not discriminate, but my body, as I'm getting older now, my body is like, okay, you have to be picky.

Raphael Harry [01:17:48]:

I related. I'm sorry, man.

Uche Chukwu [01:17:50]:

That was a distill book.

Raphael Harry [01:17:52]:

Either way, I got this.

Uche Chukwu [01:17:56]:

So oatmeal and wheat flour.

Raphael Harry [01:18:01]:

That's good.

Uche Chukwu [01:18:02]:

Comes with a lot of fiber.

Raphael Harry [01:18:03]:

Yeah, I like Amala, too. I didn't think I would like Amala growing up, but because of how light it is, I still love my Panda diamond. But, my brother, you got to eat that. Like, I get up anymore, it's over. Yeah. So, my brother, I appreciate you. I can talk to you all day, but yeah, I really appreciate you for giving me your time. So, final question. What would you love to leave the audience with? Your freestyle moment? Go ahead and drop it.

Uche Chukwu [01:18:49]:

There are so many things I want to say, and I try as hard as possible to elaborate on my podcast, but you are good. I think there's too much in this world to deviate us from that goodness. But no matter what you do, we are travelers. And this word is not our home. This word is not our final destination. We, travelers, do not get stuck in this place. You have been called into being from a place where time doesn't exist and nothing less than goodness exists. So your manifestation is perfect and you are your own superpower. You have been fine-tuned, meticulously crafted to be here. Now embody that your winner by default. You'd actually have to spend energy to lose. So embody your individuality, no matter how natural it comes, and you will win by default. Again, this word is not our home. There are things in this universe, in this world that try to convince you otherwise. And this thing is so intelligent and serpentine and has built systems to corrupt you from cradle to think otherwise. It wants to trap you in this realm. You must fight it with everything you got by being yourself. That's it.

Raphael Harry [01:20:13]:

Should I have a mega church somewhere? If you need a treasurer, call me. I really love you and appreciate you, my brother. So please let people know where to find you, your work, how they can subscribe support you. Please.

Uche Chukwu [01:20:34]:

Yes, I am a podcaster YouTuber, my title. There are let's talk about us with Uche. Uche. My website is Duche.com, where I have information regarding my life coaching practice. As my life coach, I focus on black people irrespective of where you're from. African American. Black American Caribbean. Doesn't matter. I also focus on Africans, irrespective of where you live, and African LGBTQ people who only live in the diaspora outside of the continent of Africa. So if you are one of those people and you are interested in my service, you can always send me an email or request through my website@theuche.com. My Instagram is Ucimages my TikTok Twitter, Facebook and LinkedIn are LTA with Uche. So, yes, email address is let's talk with Uche@gmail.com.

Raphael Harry [01:21:36]:

All right. And I will have all of that in the show notes. And yes, you can follow Uche subscribe. I don't think I subscribe on your YouTube, but, yeah, I'm definitely going to subscribe on YouTube right now so I don't forget. Yeah, subscribe, follow, chase, and support in every way.

Uche Chukwu [01:21:58]:

Hit the bell. Notification.

Raphael Harry [01:21:59]:

Yes, hit that notification button. And, yeah, keep the love coming in. So thank you all for being with us. Really appreciate you all. See you next week. Thank you for the privilege of your company. Five-star reviews. Don't forget. Buy merch, and send the podcast to your friends. All right, keep the love coming in. Thanks for listening to White Label American. If you enjoyed the show, please give a five-star review on your favorite podcast app. You can follow the show on all social media platforms. Visit the White Label American website for links, donations, episodes, feedback, guests, match, and newsletter. Don't forget to download the free White Label American app on the Google Play store and Apple. Coming soon. Thank you for the privilege of your company.